The Baltics: should Britain be rushing to their defence?

Really? Based on what?
.

Absolutely religiously and scrupulously followed rules of the game for 70 years.

We don't bomb Russian turf they don't bomb ours.
Them's the rules of nuclear club membership.
You fight proxy, you don't go Mano y Mano


Letting the Baltic States join NATO was an insane rush of blood to the head that no one can explain and everyone regrets.
 
Absolutely religiously and scrupulously followed rules of the game for 70 years.

We don't bomb Russian turf they don't bomb ours.
Them's the rules of nuclear club membership.
You fight proxy, you don't go Mano y Mano


Letting the Baltic States join NATO was an insane rush of blood to the head that no one can explain and everyone regrets.
Everyone regrets?

You do have links to back that up?
I for one enjoyed the support the Estonians gave during Herrick!
 
Absolutely religiously and scrupulously followed rules of the game for 70 years.

We don't bomb Russian turf they don't bomb ours.
Them's the rules of nuclear club membership.
You fight proxy, you don't go Mano y Mano
Seriously? When was the last time Russia or the Soviet Union invaded a NATO member?
Letting the Baltic States join NATO was an insane rush of blood to the head that no one can explain and everyone regrets.
Once again, we are where we are. Your solution is to roll over and let Putin tickle your stomach whilst NATO breaks up
 
They are already desperately poor by EU standards with a per capita GDP of just £14k.
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If you want, I can draw you a proper map, I'm good at that, it was my day job for the grown ups.
If you're as good at that as you are at everything else I reckon most of us will forego the offer.
 
Ask him about the gifting of MV22 from the USMC, also about the offer of M1a3 for the Army.
 
Seriously? When was the last time Russia or the Soviet Union invaded a NATO member?
When was the last time we had the utter stupidity to let former Soviet States with large ethnic Russian populations and hard up against Russia proper join NATO?

Once again, we are where we are. Your solution is to roll over and let Putin tickle your stomach whilst NATO breaks up
KALINIGRAD...... it’s the person of colour in the tough talking woodpile.
A large and very heavily armed Russian enclave sitting downrange of any NATO attempt to reinforce by land or sea.
Any fantasy of coming to the Baltics aid would require the neutralisation of Kaliningrad.
What’s that? The Russians are using nuclear ambiguity by deploying Iskander M they know we know is dual capable - and they know we know we will not attack any missile sites with ‘could be nuclear armed’ on them.


Reality- any attempt to fight for the worthless Baltic states will require NATO to engage Russia’s main force on Russian turf, and how is that going to work out for us?
You really think the Russians wouldn't get just a tad terminally miffed is we went and tried to knock over the Headquarters of the St Petersburg military district and its main regional garrisons and bases?
Answers on a salvo of small nuclear tipped IRBMs by return post.

We’ve come to our own conclusion a viable defence of the Baltics would require 7 permanently based Divisions, including two heavy armoured, along with strong naval and air forces, but we haven't done anything bar wave the odd token figleaf -
 
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When was the last time we had the utter stupidity to let former Soviet States with large ethnic Russian populations and hard up against Russia proper join NATO?
That’s be ‘never’ with Russia/Soviet Union invading a NATO member then.

Turkey and Norway have had borders with Russia since they joined.
KALINIGRAD...... it’s the person of colour in the tough talking woodpile.
A large and very heavily armed Russian enclave sitting downrange of any NATO attempt to reinforce by land or sea.
Any fantasy of coming to the Baltics aid would require the neutralisation of Kaliningrad.
There’s more than one way to skin a cat
What’s that? The Russians are using nuclear ambiguity by deploying Iskander M they know we know is dual capable - and they know we know we will not attack any missile sites with ‘could be nuclear armed’ on them.
You’re privy to 4* planning?
Reality- any attempt to fight for the worthless Baltic states will require NATO to engage Russia’s main force on Russian turf, and how is that going to work out for us?
You really think the Russians wouldn't get just a tad terminally miffed is we went and tried to knock over the Headquarters of the St Petersburg military district and its main regional garrisons and bases?
More miffed than invading a NATO member?

As for ‘worthless’ we could say the same about your own country of origin
Answers on a salvo of small nuclear tipped IRBMs by return post.
Vlad won’t go nuclear. He may blame ‘one or two’ on a ‘rogue General’ but he wants to retire in comfort with that $60Bn he’s squirrelled away
We’ve come to our own conclusion a viable defence of the Baltics would require 7 permanently based Divisions, including two heavy armoured, along with strong naval and air forces, but we haven't done anything bar wave the odd token figleaf -
We’ve put ‘deterrent’ forces there. Enough to make a ‘speed bump’, not enough to fall for the Russian agitprop.

Deterrent forces worked for years in the Cold War.
 
The three Baltic states are not worthless regardless of what you state. As others can testify a token force can be reinforced as and when required. With enough rotation between battle groups, so that any reinforcements are au fait with the lie of the land.
 
They do - although I cannot see any distinguishing insignia in the photos.
Anyway, that's not nearly as interesting for conspiracy theorists
Except, The US fly out of Lielevarde and the Slovaks out of Riga... meanwhile... off for a train trip of mega proportions from Poland to Latvia.... yes, it can be done.
 
I'm no tactician, but as a Devils Advocate. Say we do re-enforce the Baltic states, what happened in 1940. French built the Magginot line, the box heads came in through the back door.
I know with modern Reccie ascets you should see what Commerade Putin doing. Well you'd hope we would.
 
I'm no tactician, but as a Devils Advocate. Say we do re-enforce the Baltic states, what happened in 1940. French built the Magginot line, the box heads came in through the back door.
I know with modern Reccie ascets you should see what Commerade Putin doing. Well you'd hope we would.
I’m not aware of any fixed line of defence in Europe anymore. The closest would be the DMZ in Korea I suppose.

Russia can attack the Baltic nations from a variety of locations. By air, sea and land. Which is why time spent in reconnaissance by both sides isn’t wasted.

The ‘new’ Fulda Gap is now the Suwalki Gap and both NATO and Russia have exercised this
 
I was never a fan of extending NATO membership past the original cold war members. A "nueatral zone" of former warpac countries should have kept everybody safer imho, however we are where we are. They do provide useful bases from which to exercise recce, and they are areas through which Russia cannot freely transit. Does it buy time for NATO , possibly. I'm absolutely no expert.
 
I'm no tactician, but as a Devils Advocate. Say we do re-enforce the Baltic states, what happened in 1940. French built the Magginot line, the box heads came in through the back door.
I know with modern Reccie ascets you should see what Commerade Putin doing. Well you'd hope we would.

The Russians have their version of Colchester 20 minues drive from the Latvian border.

We have no strategic depth to give us time, by the time we get through on th e phone, they are already over the border.
 
if only we had recce units that could provide advance warning ....
 
Neither were former soviet states with large ethnic Russian populations.
I never said they were and you still haven’t provided any evidence of Russia or the Soviet Union attacking a NATO member.

If their population changes and they leave NATO the whole point is moot. They are NATO members and joined for a reason. Whether they should’ve been allowed is again neither here nor there, they’re in NATO.
 
Wasn’t implying a fixed defence line as such. I meant, we’d be up in the Baltic and Vlad would use the back door.
Why mention the Maginot line? Vlad can take the Baltic nations in 60 or so hours if he wants to. By front door, back door, skylight or porthole.

Last I heard, the idea of recce was to give an idea where the opfor is and allow those up the chain to deal with it.

Whether he and Russia in its current configuration survive that is anybody’s guess. They didn’t perform very well against a neighbour who had older versions of the same kit. That land corridor to Crimea is still missing hence the bridge.
 
Let me see, going toe to toe with a peer adversary, having to tie down troops fighting a ragged counter insurgency war in the Baltic while a facing mounting casualties and possible the PRC seeing an opportune moment to wanting bits of old China back, loss of trade....Yep, the Russians will really want to engage that. Say what you like about Ivan, he's a calculating sod, and the sums aren't working for him just yet.
 

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