The Baltics: should Britain be rushing to their defence?

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"Russia has accused the US of striking a “severe blow” to European stability after Donald Trump announced he would send 1,000 troops to Poland, raising fears of a new arms race between the two military superpowers. Mr Trump’s decision to boost the US military in Poland"

1000 troops from Germany is nothing to write home about however,

"... just months after his administration pulled out of a landmark Cold War nuclear missile treaty drawn up to protect Europe from attack. Russia’s foreign ministry said on Thursday that the move was a “severe blow” to a separate 1997 deal between Russia and Nato restricting military build-up in eastern Europe and represented a “further dangerous build-up of military capabilities on the continent."

Does this not raise the threat that the whole of Europe faces? Was NATO consulted on this or was it a unilateral move?
See my post above: https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/t...-rushing-to-their-defence.211956/post-9331136
 

Grey Fox

On ROPS
On ROPs
And now we have another pretendent on the award "The most stupid organisation of landing". It is...[ta-daaam] Poland!
Those guys managed to damage their Gniezno Landing ship by colliding with an underwater object during approaching to the beach...
Landing was cancelled. I cant imagine what they want to do in a real war?
 
USS LSD 43 tied up alongside this weekend - I was away but told about it; I saw her this morning in Riga Port - equipment on display but as I passed in a car, all I could see was the 2.5 tonners on deck.

Unusual, very unusual. Sleep tight fellas... you might need it.
 
I thought that Moose natural habitat was garrison towns!
 
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It's a C-27J Spartan if that's what you're asking.

Regards,
MM
 
The Baltics inescapable strategic problem.

A couple of amphibious landings, a few air assaults and drop a couple of bridges - and Bobski's your uncle



View attachment 401237
Has anybody seriously said the Baltic nations cannot withstand a full on Russian invasion? If not, your 'Johnny aged 5 map' is moot. What you need to get your head round is that they are in NATO. There is no Article to remove a member of NATO. If Russia invades the Baltic nations and NATO does nothing, you may as well rip the Treaty up.

Do you have a solution?
 
Has anybody seriously said the Baltic nations cannot withstand a full on Russian invasion? If not, your 'Johnny aged 5 map' is moot. What you need to get your head round is that they are in NATO. There is no Article to remove a member of NATO. If Russia invades the Baltic nations and NATO does nothing, you may as well rip the Treaty up.

Do you have a solution?

We WILL NOT fight for the Baltics because we know its -

1) Undefendable
2) The Russians are playing with home advantage
3) We're not going to throw ordnance into Russia proper - thats a nuclear Red line and we know it

If the Russians call our bluff, we'll huff and puff a bit, then take our ball home and sulk.

But the Russians don't have to attack, they can use a threat in being that costs them nothing, (all their main forces are based along the border anyway), and wear the locals down while costing us a lot.

Demographics will do for the Baltics, they are depopulating westwards at a prodigious rate.
Take Latvia - a 25% drop in population since joining the EU, about the same again predicted by 2050
The other Baltic states are little better. All you see is mostly children and old people, and the children are just waiting until they are old enough to leave.
The Baltics States talks tough about defending themselves, but when you have to roll school aged cadet forces into the armed forces to bulk up the numbers from minisciule to tiny, you know its just brave talk. They are desperate for manpower now, the constant migration of the shrinking pool of young men West will make the situation much worse.

Aggregate population of the 3 States just 6 million, another few million and they cease to be viable states.
They are already desperately poor by EU standards with a per capita GDP of just £14k.


If you want, I can draw you a proper map, I'm good at that, it was my day job for the grown ups.
 
We WILL NOT fight for the Baltics because we know its -

1) Undefendable
Agreed.
2) The Russians are playing with home advantage
Of course
3) We're not going to throw ordnance into Russia proper - thats a nuclear Red line and we know it
Really? Based on what?
If the Russians call our bluff, we'll huff and puff a bit, then take our ball home and sulk.
I don't believe so. But then you obviously know more about current military ops than I do :rolleyes:
But the Russians don't have to attack, they can use a threat in being that costs them nothing, (all their main forces are based along the border anyway), and wear the locals down while costing us a lot.
It depends on what triggers A5
Demographics will do for the Baltics, they are depopulating westwards at a prodigious rate.
Take Latvia - a 25% drop in population since joining the EU, about the same again predicted by 2050
The other Baltic states are little better. All you see is mostly children and old people, and the children are just waiting until they are old enough to leave.
The Baltics States talks tough about defending themselves, but when you have to roll school aged cadet forces into the armed forces to bulk up the numbers from minisciule to tiny, you know its just brave talk. They are desperate for manpower now, the constant migration of the shrinking pool of young men West will make the situation much worse.

Aggregate population of the 3 States just 6 million, another few million and they cease to be viable states.
They are already desperately poor by EU standards with a per capita GDP of just £14k.
Which still doesn't mean they're not NATO members
If you want, I can draw you a proper map, I'm good at that, it was my day job for the grown ups.
I know. Along with your former profession, your origin, former handles on here etc etc.

None of this answers the question though. They're members of NATO. There's no Article which allows them to be removed unless they do it themselves. Failing to defend a NATO member means you may as well rip the Treaty up.
 

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