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The Appeasement thread

Seanie said:
"Strange how i can't think of one Christian fundamentalist group... are there any? I don't claim to know everything."

There are a few in America, not least those loons who protest at the funerals of soldiers claiming that god is killing soldiers to punish America for being tolerant towards Gays. Name escapes me.
There are actually a great many - the most alarming of all being the born again 'rapturists' the bunch who believe that the end is nigh, that it is their duty to do what they can to bring forward Armageddon (many of George W's born again buddies are members - no joke) and that only 400 000 will ascend to Heaven all others to Hell. Google for US rapture sites and check out the 'left behind' series of Christo/sci Fi novels for a real insight into some of the levers behind US policy. Worryingly the 'Rapture' cult is very similar to the 'return of the 12th Imman' doctrine at the heart of Shiite belief.

Any corrections welcomed.
 
I hate myself for adding this.

I am a soft leftie, and proud to be so. I believe that we should live and let live - irrespective of religion, orientation, sex, colour, creed.

But the important point in that is "live and let live". However, for Islam, and I am happy to be proven wrong on this, their Qu'ran says (paraphrased) "Kill anyone that stands in the way of Islam. Those that don't believe in Islam, steal their land and rape their wives and daughters, for they are fools if they don't believe"

Now any muslim who wants to not take this bit of the Qu'ran literally and will say "I want to live amongst you and show religious tolerance" I will happily share my country with (Christ, we need all the doctors we can get). These are moderate muslims.

Those that believe that the Qu'ran should be followed to the letter let them have the guts to stand up and say it. Let them all that are in this country stand together with the power of A'llah behind them and say "We will battle and kill anyone who stands before us and steal your property and rape your women". These are the radical muslims. I am sure they would find that actually, they would find a significant number of people willing to fight them.

In that way, it allows them the honour of going to their equivalent of heaven and getting their virgins.

Any other way of fighting is PURE COWARDICE. So let's f*cking have you.
 
Seanie said:
"Strange how i can't think of one Christian fundamentalist group... are there any? I don't claim to know everything."

There are a few in America, not least those loons who protest at the funerals of soldiers claiming that god is killing soldiers to punish America for being tolerant towards Gays. Name escapes me.

Being at funerals is a smidge better than causing them.
 
All from the above thread

Police have increased their presence in Britain's Muslim communities in case of attacks following the arrests over an alleged plot to blow up US airliners.
A fire has been started at a mosque in Chester, said Peter Fahy from the Association of Chief Police Officers.

Forces would be "very alive" to any threats, he added.

The head of the Muslim Council of Britain said Muslims supported curbs on terrorism, but warned of "a distance" growing between them and the police.

Dr Mohammed Abdul Bari said his community is "fully behind" efforts to prevent terrorist attacks.

But police must be very careful, as the failed raid in east London in June created "a distance" between them and Muslims, he warned.

"The people that I have been listening to - the old, young, men and women - they are saying that they are fully behind the police when it comes to national security and the public safety," he said in an interview with BBC Radio Leeds.


Dr Bari is to meet worried Muslims in West Yorkshire on Friday
The secretary general of the Muslim Council of Britain called on his community to "work together" with detectives.

In June, Dr Bari warned that trust between the Muslim community and police could be damaged following the raid on a house in Forest Gate.

A Muslim man was shot in the shoulder and was arrested along with his brother.

Both were later released without charge and the police watchdog, the Independent Police Complaints Commission, judged the shooting to have been accidental.

'A real worry'

Earlier on Friday, Dr Bari was asked whether the threat to the UK had been exaggerated by the government in an attempt to increase support for its so-called "war on terror".

"I have heard something like that from some people," he told BBC Radio Five Live.

For four years we've been seeing more and more innocent people being harassed and demonised

Fahad Ansari, Islamic Human Rights Commission

"But my worry is, if this is the perception of a significant section of the community, then this is a real worry."

Home Secretary John Reid has urged people of all communities and religions in the UK to join together to overcome "those who wish to harm us".

However, police "need to do a lot more thinking" before that can happen, argued Fahad Ansari from the Islamic Human Rights Commission, because their intelligence was "flawed".

"For four years we've been seeing more and more innocent people being harassed and demonised," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

"We've seen very few terrorists being captured but a lot of innocent people destroyed.

"The more you alienate a community, it's not going to be good for future relations."


Two Muslim brothers were arrested in the raid in Forest Gate in June
Khalid Mahmood, the Labour MP for Birmingham Perry Barr, said he accepted that young Muslims disagreed with the government's policy on terrorism, and this could lead to a minority turning to being led astray.

Some young people were being "sectioned off" and "brainwashed", he added.

And on occasions, "very new converts to the religion" did not have "a fundamental understanding of their own religion", he said.

Meanwhile a spokesman for Islamic political organisation Hizb ut-Tahrir said he would "urge caution before jumping to conclusions" about the 24 people arrested over the latest alleged terror plot.

"We hope there is no repeat of the media hysteria and police leaks that followed the Forest Gate raids when reports of 'chemical vests' and 'bomb factories' turned out not to be true," said Imran Waheed.

ENd of Story
So, it might turn out to be a false alarm (the apologists hope)
Or, some of the moderates are realising that if they are seen to be even potentially siding with scum that would do this, they will get a good shoeing
 
It should be equally culpable of the media to miss out on those moments of crashing irony...

I've just watched some imam (naturally the community spokesman) reminding me on C4 that the principle of innocent until proven guilty should apply to the suspects currently under arrest.

I am very well aware that it is one of the fundamental tenets of British Justice and didn't need reminding by the likes of this man.

Correct me if I am wrong but I didn't think it was a similarly prominent principe under sharia law? In which case it is awfully ironic to hear it invoked by someone who would prefer the ordeal by hot coals as a way of proving guilt.

This was just the C4 7pm news. Perhaps some bright spark might pick this up for Newsnight?
 
Victorian_Captain said:
It should be equally culpable of the media to miss out on those moments of crashing irony...

I've just watched some imam (naturally the community spokesman) reminding me on C4 that the principle of innocent until proven guilty should apply to the suspects currently under arrest.

I am very well aware that it is one of the fundamental tenets of British Justice and didn't need reminding by the likes of this man.

Correct me if I am wrong but I didn't think it was a similarly prominent principe under sharia law? In which case it is awfully ironic to hear it invoked by someone who would prefer the ordeal by hot coals as a way of proving guilt.

This was just the C4 7pm news. Perhaps some bright spark might pick this up for Newsnight?

Good points and well made, [ though I did not see the interview so I can only talk in general terms without reference to the individual quote "Imam" unquote you refer to ] what is particularly interesting is that many individuals that the media and even HM Government trot out as representing Islam are Wahabists which is a heretical sect and most defenitely un-Islamic.

see the reference to Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab in the following item.


Uthman ibn Muammar's indifference, however, came to be sorely tested when Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab dragged a woman accused of adultery out into a public square and stoned her to death. Some report that he had, in fact, used a heavy boulder to crush her head. The action triggered widespread fury.

Non-Muslims would profess puzzlement at the villagers' reaction. Does Islam, like Judaism, not condemn all adulterers to death by stoning?

The perception is true, but there is a caveat. Umar ibn Khattab, one of Prophet Muhammad's close companions and a Rightly-Guided Caliph, is said to have caught a couple engaging in adulterous sex. The Quranic punishment for such behavior was indeed death by stoning, but Ali, another companion, reminded Umar that no fewer than four witnesses are required to certify guilt for such an accusation, and that if he acted without such testimony, he himself would sin. Umar abided by Ali's advice and pardoned the couple. It must be noted here that although Umar- whose very shadow the devil was said to run away from- had witnessed the act, he had no authority to suspend Quranic laws.

Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab's behavior was made worse by the fact that he was not recognized as al-Uyayna's qadi, which was Uthman's position. At best, the woman's death was a product of vigilante justice, which flies completely in the face of Islam. In his book, the "The Eternal Message of Muhammad", the late Abdul Rahman Azzam stated that an ulema "should be of mature age and a man of wisdom, enjoy popular support and be a person who draws on the...counsel of the natural leaders. But if he disobeys the commands of God and disregards the interests of the people, he will be repudiated."

http://higher-criticism.blogspot.com/2005/09/muhammad-ibn-abdul-wahhab_19.html

Saludos Amigos
Zapata
 
TopBadger said:
Strange how i can't think of one Christian fundamentalist group... are there any? I don't claim to know everything.

Maybe Islam is the source of the problem.

Did we suffer from homegrown Islamic fundamentalists before our cities built mosques? I don't think we did.

TB

[edited for spelling]

Fundamentalist as a christian word dates from around 1909, it's just back to basics for religous nutters of all types.

islam started late (640s) and is going through its teenage period, 600/700 (or so) years ago we were burning catholics and protestants and doing crusades.

Clip round the ear with a sledge hammer and sent to bed with out oxygen should do the trick al-Kevin and perry khan the islamic teenagers
 
TopBadger said:
Strange how i can't think of one Christian fundamentalist group...

I can. When I was literally a babe in arms and with my father in NI (1970s) my Methodist Jihad grandparents visited my mother and tried to get her to sign the pledge on my behalf. To her eternal credit she laughed her CofE head off - although I slightly regret not having the thing to frame above my wine rack.

Seems pretty fundamentalist to me, given the loose meaning the term has gained. It certainly resulted in me giving my idiot grandparents twenty years of short shrift and has given me a deep loathing of all things Wesleyan.

One man's fundamentalist is another's non-conformist, I suppose.
 
smallbrownprivates wrote

islam started late (640s) and is going through its teenage period, 600/700 (or so) years ago we were burning catholics and protestants and doing crusades.

[nb I originally attributed the above comment to Victorian_captain in error, my apologies to Victorian Captain, totally my mistake ]

Happily for us, Holy Catholic Spain did not have a nuclear bomb and just a fleet of sailing ships when they launched the Spanish Armada

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Armada

or we would all be talking Spanish, burning witches and living in mortal fear of the inquisition and worrying if the harvest would fail and be busy driveing our oxen and sheep to market in the twenty first century. Motorcars and antiobiotic medecines forget it, you would be doing well if you had a donkey and maybe the local monastry could do you up a poultice if you had cancer.

Unfortunately for us, al-Qaeda will probably obtain nuclear and biological weapons

Zapata
 
Zapata.

Precisely where on this thread did I write the above comment? You have constructed the post to look like I did. But it doesn't take much of a scan to reveal that I did not. I demand the withdrawal or adjustment of your post.
 
Victorian_Captain

sorry you did not post that, my mistake!

If it helps at all, I was not criticiseing the comment just developing on it, either way I will amend it at once and sorry again for my error.

Zapata

the relevant post has now been amended, thanx for pointing out my mistake and sorry again!

Zapata
 
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