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The Anniversary of The Channel Dash - 1942 - and the wider RN Fleet Air Arm during the Second World War

Indeed - but the refits of British ones improved that survivability. Damage control was no less critical for carriers of all types than it was for other warships. By the time the Americans entered the war the Royal Navy already had considerable experience of ships being damaged in action and ways in which they could be made more survivable.

limited effect, see also the Light Fleets intended to replace the Lend Lease ‘Woolworths carriers’, specifically designed as ‘disposable warships’ to be scrapped at wars end or if they sustained any notable damage..
they were merchant standard hulls too. A bit extra subdivisions to improve survivability, and lots of empty oil drums in empty compartments to provide buoyancy if the war got in.
 
limited effect, see also the Light Fleets intended to replace the Lend Lease ‘Woolworths carriers’, specifically designed as ‘disposable warships’ to be scrapped at wars end or if they sustained any notable damage..
they were merchant standard hulls too. A bit extra subdivisions to improve survivability, and lots of empty oil drums in empty compartments to provide buoyancy if the war got in.

Being able to survive the damage at the time was far more important than surviving in a state to serve for decades. Survive to carry on fighting. I should imagine that the British modifications also improved the fire and explosion resistance, particularly after the loss of HMS Dasher.
 
Indeed - but the refits of British ones improved that survivability. Damage control was no less critical for carriers of all types than it was for other warships. By the time the Americans entered the war the Royal Navy already had considerable experience of ships being damaged in action and ways in which they could be made more survivable.

Quite frankly l believe the Damage Control Training given to U.S. Navy Warship Crewmen was in a class of it's own.

The U.S.S. Enterprise was hit by three bombs on two separate occasions in 1942 and her crew were able to patch up the damage on her Flight Deck and were able to operate Aircraft within s few hours.

The ultimate example of the U.S. Navy's expertise in Damage Control must be the U.S.S. Franklin on March 19th 1945.
 
Being able to survive the damage at the time was far more important than surviving in a state to serve for decades. Survive to carry on fighting. I should imagine that the British modifications also improved the fire and explosion resistance, particularly after the loss of HMS Dasher.

the cheap and cheerful, and very disposable CVE’s and Light Fleets long outlasted all the ‘properly built’ RN Armoured carriers which had a fundemental design flaw that doomed them to an early appointment with the breakers.
 
Oil came from the cowling flaps and was fixed early on.

a Korean war issue for the Night fighter version F4U-5NL was alcohol de icer fumes in the cockpit. It took a few weeks to work out where it was leaking in from and seal it off
correct but also leaks from oil pipe fittings not tightened properly/vibrating open,oil coolers, usual cylinder leaks. it was found that some of those leaks migrated upwards around the cockpit instead and down and out of the bottom of the cowling. Not confined to the Corsair,either. That's why you see white tape on the upper nose of the aircraft,keeping panels over oil tanks sealed.
 
the cheap and cheerful, and very disposable CVE’s and Light Fleets long outlasted all the ‘properly built’ RN Armoured carriers which had a fundemental design flaw that doomed them to an early appointment with the breakers.

I am doubtful that they were regarded as disposable in wartime - certainly not by the RN and probably not the USN either. Although not quite capital ships, they were high value units.

As for properly built carriers, some of them lasted into the fifties and Victorious was in service until 1969.

Quite frankly l believe the Damage Control Training given to U.S. Navy Warship Crewmen was in a class of it's own.

The U.S.S. Enterprise was hit by three bombs on two separate occasions in 1942 and her crew were able to patch up the damage on her Flight Deck and were able to operate Aircraft within s few hours.

The ultimate example of the U.S. Navy's expertise in Damage Control must be the U.S.S. Franklin on March 19th 1945.

I also believe our damage control could work wonders - see the above example of HMS Nabob.
 
I am doubtful that they were regarded as disposable in wartime - certainly not by the RN and probably not the USN either. Although not quite capital ships, they were high value units.

As for properly built carriers, some of them lasted into the fifties and Victorious was in service until 1969.



I also believe our damage control could work wonders - see the above example of HMS Nabob.

I would never doubt the effectiveness of Royal Navy Damage Control Training. I just think the U.S. Navy were the experts at it.

Enterprise, Bunker Hill, Franklin, were all seriously damaged by bombs or Kamikaze attack yet they were never in any real danger of being sunk.
 
I am doubtful that they were regarded as disposable in wartime - certainly not by the RN and probably not the USN either. Although not quite capital ships, they were high value units.

As for properly built carriers, some of them lasted into the fifties and Victorious was in service until 1969.



I also believe our damage control could work wonders - see the above example of HMS Nabob.

they absolutely were regarded as ‘one shot ships’.
protection and damage control arrangements were to the minimum possible, anything not strictly mission critical was deleted from the designs.

‘lasted into the 50’s’ as in mostly laid up and not a penny spent on them, as with the exception of Victorious, they were all written off as constructive wrecks due to damage exacerbated by their armoured box hangers.

victorious lasted until 1969?
well yes, but after a huge and very protracted that left her making triggers broom look original!
she was so extensively and massively reconstructed, pretty much everything bar the keel was replaced, it would have been quicker, and cheaper, to have built a new carrier.

‘our damage control could work wonders’?
Are you serious? Nabob didn’t sink because the torpedo hit wasn't fatal, not because of wonders of damage control, but after she reached port, she was inspected and written off and beached as not worth repairing - see point one.
 
I would never doubt the effectiveness of Royal Navy Damage Control Training. I just think the U.S. Navy were the experts at it.

Enterprise, Bunker Hill, Franklin, were all seriously damaged by bombs or Kamikaze attack yet they were never in any real danger of being sunk.

Indeed, they were masters of the art.
 
The fires that swept through Bunker Hill and Franklin were brought under control, and both ships made their way back to the Conus under their own steam, with both quickly restored to service.
no British carrier could gave survived the conflagrations, a much smaller explosion and fire in the hanger of Indomitable in 1953 wrote her off after rupturing the armoured box - that was the designs fatal flaw, all damage was either fed down through the armoured hanger into the hull causing severe whipping damage, or was contained in the box hanger causing severe structural damage. An explosion or fire in an American carriers hanger vented outboard.
we stopped building armoured carriers.

Contemporary documentary on the Franklin

 
The fires that swept through Bunker Hill and Franklin were brought under control, avd both ships made their way back to the Conus under their own steam, with both quickly restored to service.
no British carrier could gave survived the conflagrations, a much smaller explosion and fire in the hanger of Indomitable in 1953 wrote her off after rupturing the armoured box - that was the designs fatal flaw, all damage was either fed down through the armoured hanger into the hull causing severe whipping damage, or was contained in the box hanger causing severe structural damage. An explosion or fire in an American carriers hanger vented outboard.

Contemporary documentary on the Franklin



As a sidenote the Padre aboard the Franklin, Father O'Callahan was awarded the Medal Of Honour for helping to round up survivors and putting them to work Firefighting, throwing ammunition overboard and evacuating the wounded etc.
 
they absolutely were regarded as ‘one shot ships’.
protection and damage control arrangements were to the minimum possible, anything not strictly mission critical was deleted from the designs.

‘lasted into the 50’s’ as in mostly laid up and not a penny spent on them, as with the exception of Victorious, they were all written off as constructive wrecks due to damage exacerbated by their armoured box hangers.

victorious lasted until 1969?
well yes, but after a huge and very protracted that left her making triggers broom look original!
she was so extensively and massively reconstructed, pretty much everything bar the keel was replaced, it would have been quicker, and cheaper, to have built a new carrier.

‘our damage control could work wonders’?
Are you serious? Nabob didn’t sink because the torpedo hit wasn't fatal, not because of wonders of damage control, but after she reached port, she was inspected and written off and beached as not worth repairing - see point one.

Did Nabob manage to launch any more aircraft? Did she survive long enough to make port? That is different to sinking on the scene. I have no idea why you always seek to downplay the actions of our own forces.

Are you suggesting that a 32 square foot hole below the waterline and loss of propulsion was something that a ship could survive without serious and courageous damage control efforts?
 
The fires that swept through Bunker Hill and Franklin were brought under control, and both ships made their way back to the Conus under their own steam, with both quickly restored to service.
no British carrier could gave survived the conflagrations, a much smaller explosion and fire in the hanger of Indomitable in 1953 wrote her off after rupturing the armoured box - that was the designs fatal flaw, all damage was either fed down through the armoured hanger into the hull causing severe whipping damage, or was contained in the box hanger causing severe structural damage. An explosion or fire in an American carriers hanger vented outboard.
we stopped building armoured carriers.

Contemporary documentary on the Franklin



There is a bit of an inaccuracy in your post - neither Bunker Hill or Franklin saw further service during the war. Both were in the dockyard for over a year.

You also forget that Illustrious was severely damaged by German bombing in the Mediterranean, but after temporary repairs at Malta was able to make it to the United States for more extensive repairs.
 
There is a bit of an inaccuracy in your post - neither Bunker Hill or Franklin saw further service during the war. Both were in the dockyard for over a year.

You also forget that Illustrious was severely damaged by German bombing in the Mediterranean, but after temporary repairs at Malta was able to make it to the United States for more extensive repairs.

I posted ‘both quickly restored to service’......

Illustrious was left a wreck, so badly twisted, it sealed her post war fate.
And that occurred while being attacked by the very thing she was designed to survive, an attack by land based aircraft in the Mediterranean.

if instead of 10,000 tonnes of useless armour, shed been carying an extra 36 fighters, she would have swatted away the Stukas without breaking sweat.

The massive damage to Illustrious showed how utterly wrong headed the ‘armoured carrier’ concept was - you defend a Carrier with aircraft, not steel plate.


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