The Anarchy: The Relentless Rise of the East India Company

The Anarchy: The Relentless Rise of the East India Company

Auld-Yin

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Review: by Metellus Cimber II

First published in 2019, this fascinating book somehow escaped the vigilance of the ARRSE book review team until now. Running to 522 well-written pages, it is an ideal Covid-19 book; enjoyable as well as instructive. In Salman Rushdie's words, William Dalrymple is “that rarity, a scholar of History who can really write”. He has written many travel and history books, mainly about India, and comes from a Scottish family that was formerly much-involved in...

Click here to read the full review.....
 

Chimp

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Outstanding book. Uncomfortable reading for some and a number of parallels for today. The arrogant disdain and disregard for life from all sides was evident throughout.
 

4(T)

LE
I must admit I gave up reading it several times. Whilst full of interesting historical data, I found it to be more of a personal diatribe in line with the author's personal views, rather than a balanced and contextual appreciation. Plays very well to modern narratives, though, which seems to account for many of the plaudits it has received.


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rampant

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I must admit I gave up reading it several times. Whilst full of interesting historical data, I found it to be more of a personal diatribe in line with the author's personal views, rather than a balanced and contextual appreciation. Plays very well to modern narratives, though, which seems to account for many of the plaudits it has received.


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No the EIC was really that bad, nor does Dalrymple shy away from the criticising those Indian groups that were either complicit in or sought to exploit the circumstances. It's a cracking read.
 
Michael Portillo was on Ch5 last night talking about the East India Company and the British Empire. Yes, a lot of uncomfortable stuff and corruption. One of the interviewees seemed to think it was a deliberate plan by UK gov't, a conspiracy but another was reflective and balanced in outlook. It was part of a shared history, so he was keen to renovate the old buildings, which were after all built by skilled Indian builders.
 
They did our family a favour. A great great went out in 1815 after a stint as an Ensign with the Militia in Scotland and came back with an estate of over £10k (he was a Captain in the EIC) which set the family up nicely. Sadly he didn't get to enjoy it as he was washed overboard coming round the Cape of Good Hope in the early 1850s..
 
Michael Portillo was on Ch5 last night talking about the East India Company and the British Empire. Yes, a lot of uncomfortable stuff and corruption. One of the interviewees seemed to think it was a deliberate plan by UK gov't, a conspiracy but another was reflective and balanced in outlook. It was part of a shared history, so he was keen to renovate the old buildings, which were after all built by skilled Indian builders.
Portillo, is always an informative and entertaining presenter. Well recommended series if you are interested in this fascinating subject.
 
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We didn't set out to colonize India and create an empire, it was a business opportunity to be exploited and the rest sort of happened by accident. If we hadn't have done it then the French would... or worse, and I doubt many Indians would have done quite so nicely out of the opportunities John Company so kindly provided. That's my take on it.
 
We didn't set out to colonize India and create an empire, it was a business opportunity to be exploited and the rest sort of happened by accident. If we hadn't have done it then the French would... or worse, and I doubt many Indians would have done quite so nicely out of the opportunities John Company so kindly provided. That's my take on it.

Pretty much the same in Africa....which is a very uncomfortable truth for those BAME and Libtards who like to spin it differently

You only have to have half a basic knowledge of how the other Europeans powers behaved in their Colonies to see who gave the best deal to the indigs.
 
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As I once said to an empire-basher: 'Do you seriously think we could've ruled vast tracts of the sub-continent with nothing more than half a dozen old Etonians and a copy of Wisden if (as you're suggesting) we'd acted like the Waffen SS on commission?' The stupid, uninformed (aren't they all?) bint (aren't they usually?) seemed to think the entire country mutinied against the murderous, rapacious British who forced them to eat pigs. FFS.

:rolleyes:
 
As I once said to an empire-basher: 'Do you seriously think we could've ruled vast tracts of the sub-continent with nothing more than half a dozen old Etonians and a copy of Wisden if (as you're suggesting) we'd acted like the Waffen SS on commission?' The stupid, uninformed (aren't they all?) bint (aren't they usually?) seemed to think the entire country mutinied against the murderous, rapacious British who forced them to eat pigs. FFS.

:rolleyes:

They are a product of their cosy, naive, pampered left leaning , learning environment coupled with heir own ignorance due to never really having traveled or even spoken to the people of these countries .

When you combine the above with their rush to fall over and pay penance for something done by someone they never knew, to someone they never knew, it's not a surprise.

Not once were they taught about the vicious Tribal, Clan or Caste wars that was a general and regular occurrence, ...where those from smaller tribes/castes, had zero chance of advancement unless they fought for it or left to form their own communities. and or where your role in live depended on your tribe/surname or where you were born.

Did these continents use river water to power mills and then boil that water to create steam power and then fuel that with wood, then coal then gas or oil?

Did they refine any of the above to become a superpower? No...the reason being that their ancient systems had no incentive to find new ways of doing things as they were doing very well without it..


Many an argument by me with theses Libtards ....and it's at times like this, that i realize that verbal abuse and physical violence often has it's own effective learning curve.
 
As I once said to an empire-basher: 'Do you seriously think we could've ruled vast tracts of the sub-continent with nothing more than half a dozen old Etonians and a copy of Wisden if (as you're suggesting) we'd acted like the Waffen SS on commission?' The stupid, uninformed (aren't they all?) bint (aren't they usually?) seemed to think the entire country mutinied against the murderous, rapacious British who forced them to eat pigs. FFS.

:rolleyes:
As I've argued with empire-bashers in Canada, if the British Empire was so terrible to India, then how did they manage to field an army of 2.5 million volunteer Indians in WWII?
 

Chef

LE
I'm afraid you lost me with;

" In Salman Rushdie's words, William Dalrymple is “that rarity, a scholar of History who can really write”.

@BuckFelize there was a map in the National Army Museum that showed the positions and numbers of regular British troops in India. If the Girl Guides of India* had risen en masse against the Brits we'd have been out in a few days, there really weren't many of them.

*I like a nice anachronism.
 

bedended

War Hero
Review: by Metellus Cimber II

First published in 2019, this fascinating book somehow escaped the vigilance of the ARRSE book review team until now. Running to 522 well-written pages, it is an ideal Covid-19 book; enjoyable as well as instructive. In Salman Rushdie's words, William Dalrymple is “that rarity, a scholar of History who can really write”. He has written many travel and history books, mainly about India, and comes from a Scottish family that was formerly much-involved in...

Click here to read the full review.....
Morning @Auld_Yin,
Got mine in D(sm)elhi last year, only R/s700(about six'n'thruppence;)), along with the other two titles. Been after 'The Anarchy...' and 'John Company' since I 1st heard about them. Haven't even got around to un-wrapping 'The Anarchy...' yet as both other titles are on the go along with two other books(not India related).
'Thug'(pronounced 'Tug'), is excellent reading.
I'm saving 'The Anarchy...' until last.
20200516_165557.jpg
 

Auld-Yin

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Morning @Auld_Yin,
Got mine in D(sm)elhi last year, only R/s700(about six'n'thruppence;)), along with the other two titles. Been after 'The Anarchy...' and 'John Company' since I 1st heard about them. Haven't even got around to un-wrapping 'The Anarchy...' yet as both other titles are on the go along with two other books(not India related).
'Thug'(pronounced 'Tug'), is excellent reading.
I'm saving 'The Anarchy...' until last.View attachment 474087
Please note that that excellent review was not by me but by Metellus Cimber II.
 
Here is my question about the British Empire - and it is an honest enquiry with no 'side' to it - what did the Empire ever do for us?

Obviously it was of huge benefit to the diverse people who we invited to join, and it has given us the innate, and justified, instinct to look down on foreigners but really, as far as the mass working class are concerned where did all the money go?

If you look at, say, Quatar the oil revenues trickle down nicely to the gen pop of citizens but was life eased at all for the average working Brit by dint of our world wide commercial interests?

I say this because life at home was spectacularly shit for a great many.

I offer the first Factory Act which was passed in the teeth of stiff opposition preventing children under nine from being employed and limiting their elders, ie 10 year olds to a 12 hour day.

Secondly I remember a documentary by a chap exploring financial compensation for the descendants of slaves who was told that given your average British farm labourer had to pay for his own food and accommodation is was, in strict money terms, a nil sum.

And finally I believe most soldiers who joined up in the early years of WW1 put on about a stone and a half once the army started feeding them properly which I think speaks volumes for the general state of the masses at that period.

So how did having such a top hole Empire help the average British and make their life easier than the lot of the average Frenchman or German?
 
Here is my question about the British Empire - and it is an honest enquiry with no 'side' to it - what did the Empire ever do for us?

Obviously it was of huge benefit to the diverse people who we invited to join, and it has given us the innate, and justified, instinct to look down on foreigners but really, as far as the mass working class are concerned where did all the money go?

If you look at, say, Quatar the oil revenues trickle down nicely to the gen pop of citizens but was life eased at all for the average working Brit by dint of our world wide commercial interests?

I say this because life at home was spectacularly shit for a great many.

I offer the first Factory Act which was passed in the teeth of stiff opposition preventing children under nine from being employed and limiting their elders, ie 10 year olds to a 12 hour day.

Secondly I remember a documentary by a chap exploring financial compensation for the descendants of slaves who was told that given your average British farm labourer had to pay for his own food and accommodation is was, in strict money terms, a nil sum.

And finally I believe most soldiers who joined up in the early years of WW1 put on about a stone and a half once the army started feeding them properly which I think speaks volumes for the general state of the masses at that period.

So how did having such a top hole Empire help the average British and make their life easier than the lot of the average Frenchman or German?
Simple answer it didn't ...however, it did generate a mass of wealth for those of a certain class, which then got given to their bored wives who started to visit the slums , like we do a zoo... and they then began to feel guilty or even more bored, so started the age of Philanthropy which became our welfare reforms , which would not have happened or been financed without the abundance of money made by the Empire.
 
It's also a great counter-argument to be used weapons-free against those who think they have a monopoly on historic exploitation. As I said to a loud black 'lady' once 'You don't have to tell me about exploitation. I've been exploited all my life!'
 
They should thank us for dragging them kicking and screaming into civilisation at the point of a bayonet. There were plenty of noble savages who were still eating each other and shrinking heads to complement the aesthetic interior design of their mud huts.

The British Empire probably saved more lives than any other institution on earth.
 
It's also a great counter-argument to be used weapons-free against those who think they have a monopoly on historic exploitation. As I said to a loud black 'lady' once 'You don't have to tell me about exploitation. I've been exploited all my life!'
Ask what they know about the wealth of Benin , once the richest Country in Africa ,wealth being generated by hundreds of years of slave trading of captives from Wars or other tribes
 

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