The American Rap "singer" R. Kelly, known for his hit, "I Believe I Can Fly", has been convicted of sex trafficking.

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Happens a lot, CC.
Look at Tyson.
Chartering Jumbos, renting entire hotels for your friends, nose candy, beluga and Veuve, fast cars, bling...
Remember that Mikey the Pikey chap who spunked away 10 million quid in 4 years?
50 grand on a party, 2 grand a day on coke...
Oh, quite. And it fits with a certain demographic (having to be careful here lest we be accused of racial stereotypes).

Raymond Price wrote a novel called Clockers which was later turned into a film directed by Spike Lee.

In it, one of the drug gang recruiters makes a point to several potential street dealers about how those of a certain non-white community could only see as far as the bling. There was no thought for the future, no prudence. Showing out was all. He was trying to coach them to not think like (insert banned word here).

Clockers (novel) - Wikipedia

Tyson reckons he burned through a billion. A billion. That's a sick joke. I can't even conceive of how to start doing that.

(Okay, I could buy the manual off Tyson but you know what I mean.)
 
Oh, quite. And it fits with a certain demographic (having to be careful here lest we be accused of racial stereotypes).

Raymond Price wrote a novel called Clockers which was later turned into a film directed by Spike Lee.

In it, one of the drug gang recruiters makes a point to several potential street dealers about how those of a certain non-white community could only see as far as the bling. There was no thought for the future, no prudence. Showing out was all. He was trying to coach them to not think like (insert banned word here).

Clockers (novel) - Wikipedia

Tyson reckons he burned through a billion. A billion. That's a sick joke. I can't even conceive of how to start doing that.

(Okay, I could buy the manual off Tyson but you know what I mean.)
Local Saffer football players go huge.
And end up in penury when the career ends. A real paycheck to paycheck existence for them.
There was a phrase used 'Like a mine-k***** with a Barclaycard' whcih, though horribly racialist, summed it up.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Local Saffer football players go huge.
And end up in penury when the career ends. A real paycheck to paycheck existence for them.
There was a phrase used 'Like a mine-k***** with a Barclaycard' whcih, though horribly racialist, summed it up.
Funny you should mention South Africa. A friend's brother was in the financial services sector down there. The bottom has completely fallen out of the personal pensions market. Very few people of a certain demographic bother to make a second payment...

[/THREAD DRIFT]
 

Aphra

Old-Salt
I’m confused.com
So this Kelly fella, made sheds loads of dosh, and according to my better half is a bit of a looker. Could have any woman he wanted. He would only have to stand on rage and say ‘Poontang, 6 times worth please’ and 60 ladies would be stood up with their underkrackers in their hand. And he rapes them? Krackers don’t even cover 1% of this confusion.
I even like ’I can fly’, but Orville gets a tad sentimental.
But as I'm sure you know, rape isn't about sex, it's about power and control. From what I've read about Kelly, selected his victims carefully and groomed them in the usual ways. It seems that many were adolescents (male and female) who were fans of his music and easy pickings for a skilled predator. He even married one victim, Aaliyah, when she was 15 so she couldn't be compelled to testify against him.

I like to think I'm a civilised person but I admit to wishing severe retribution on those who abuse children and other vulnerable groups.
 

Nemesis44UK

LE
Book Reviewer
Oh, quite. And it fits with a certain demographic (having to be careful here lest we be accused of racial stereotypes).

Raymond Price wrote a novel called Clockers which was later turned into a film directed by Spike Lee.

In it, one of the drug gang recruiters makes a point to several potential street dealers about how those of a certain non-white community could only see as far as the bling. There was no thought for the future, no prudence. Showing out was all. He was trying to coach them to not think like (insert banned word here).

Clockers (novel) - Wikipedia

Tyson reckons he burned through a billion. A billion. That's a sick joke. I can't even conceive of how to start doing that.

(Okay, I could buy the manual off Tyson but you know what I mean.)

Yeah, it's a bit like Brian DePalma's Scarface. He deliberately chose hideous furnishings and colours as set dressing and clothes to show that even though Scarface had untold millions, his fashion sense was no more developed than when Tony Montana was a peasant from Cuba.

He didn't think such ostentatious displays of bad taste would catch on in the real world.
 

DSJ

LE

R Kelly’s conviction should send a shudder down the spine of the music business … if the business has a spine. I believe it is a watershed moment, when the #MeToo movement finally lands a telling blow on an industry and a culture that has long felt immune to moral censure.
A huge contemporary pop superstar has been found guilty in an American court of law of essentially using his fame, popularity and wealth to abuse young and vulnerable women and men who started out as fans and ended up as victims. The conviction may have been framed in the anti-organised crime legal terminology of racketeering, but the testimony heard in court shone a penetrating and unflattering spotlight on showbusiness itself.
Kelly’s conviction will send ominous reverberations through the whole music business star system, where famous performers (typically male) have exploited fans (typically star-dazed young women characterised as groupies) with casual impunity, protected by the hallowed reverence accorded to the famous, the willingness and availability of many victims, the complicity of self-serving entourages, and the apparent unwillingness of fans to believe the worst of their idols, or else to treat them as beyond ordinary reckoning. A lot of old rockers and veteran pop stars are likely to be getting a bit twitchy in the light of this verdict and wondering what the public appetite might be for examining hedonistic behaviour of the past.

Not that R Kelly was a typical pop star. He was an extreme sexual predator and abuser, with paedophilic inclinations. Court testimony spelled this graphically out, but rumours and allegations about Kelly have bubbled throughout his three-decade long career. They say there is no smoke without fire, but by the time Kelly was finally brought to trial, that fire was blazing like an inferno in the wake of an underage sex video scandal in 2002 (Kelly denied the man in the video was him), a (failed) prosecution for possession of child pornography in 2008, and several high profile investigative articles and documentaries, including the BBC 3’s R Kelly: Sex, Girls and Videotapes in 2018 and Lifetime’s six part series Surviving R Kelly in 2019.
During the run up to trial, Kelly’s own defence finally conceded his long-rumoured marriage to his teenage protégé Aaliyah in 1994, when she was 15 and Kelly was 27. Yet the truth of that particular story had been established by US music magazine Vibe back in January 1995, when they published a copy of the disputed marriage certificate (falsely registering Aaliyah’s age as 18). It failed to put a dent in Kelly’s career at all. Indeed, it may have added to his public allure as contemporary R’n’B’s most seductive and salacious soul lothario, a multiple award winning, multi-million selling master of an explicitly erotic vein of R’n’B that veers perilously between porn and corn.

Kelly’s own music was not held as evidence against him in court, but it is hard not to conclude that he has been hiding in plain sight. He wrote and produced the song Age Ain’t Nothin’ But A Number for Aliyaah when she was under the legal age of consent. Other unsubtle Kelly tracks include Sex Me, Sex Planet, Crazy Sex and Marry the P****. To quote just one of Kelly’s own lyrics about his perceived irresistible sexual allure, from 2017’s I’m a Flirt: “The moral of this story is cuff your b**** / Cause I’m black, handsome, I sing plus I’m rich.”
However, he is still probably best known in this country for aspirational gospel-tinged anthem I Believe I Can Fly, a number one 1996 hit from the soundtrack of animated kids basketball movie Space Jam. How are fans going to feel about watching that with their young ones now? Like Michael Jackson’s music, Kelly’s songs have been shifted into an ambiguous space, tainted by association. Some fans will continue to listen to Kelly for what his music represents in their personal memories, but I expect that he will become persona non grata on radio stations and in sync deals.
But that is the least of the music industry’s worries. There may be some attempt to portray Kelly as a criminal aberration, akin to such disgraced former stars as Gary Glitter and Phil Spector. But Kelly is the most famous living pop star ever to be taken down so unambiguously by the justice system for a type of behaviour rumoured to be rife throughout pop history. According to court testimony, behind the scenes Kelly used the “genius” defence for his own moral turpitude. He apparently compared himself to Jerry Lee Lewis, who’s own career survived (albeit barely) a scandal following his marriage to his 13-year-old cousin Myra in 1957. “He’s a genius, I’m a genius,” Kelly is reported to have said. “We should be allowed to do whatever we want.”

So should they? This is a question that the #MeToo movement has forced the music industry and music lovers alike to address. To throw just a few potential historic scandals into the spotlight, Elvis Presley dated future wife Priscilla when she was 14 and lived with her when she turned 17; teenage groupie Lori Maddox alleged that David Bowie took her virginity at 14; Jimmy Page of Led Zeppelin was alleged by Maddox (again) to have begun an affair with her when she was only 15; Iggy Pop boasted of sleeping with Maddox’s friend Sable Starr “when she was 13” on a 1996 album Naughty Little Doggy; and in 1975 Steven Tyler of Aerosmith persuaded the mother of his 16-year-old girlfriend Julia Holcomb to sign over guardianship of her daughter so that they could travel interstate without fear of arrest. In Aerosmith’s 1997 autobiography, Tyler is quoted as saying “(She) lost her childhood. I lost my mind.”
Those are all well known rock and roll stories, but who doubts that they represent just the tip of a particular cultural iceberg? As Roger Taylor of Queen said about his seventies rock stardom in a recent Telegraph interview: “It was part of the job to have an outrageously decadent good time. And we certainly had our share. I don’t think we were the worst or the most extreme, but yeah, we were close. Boy you wouldn’t get away with any of that stuff now. More’s the pity.” Of course, Taylor wasn’t referring to the abuse of underage girls, but the implications are still troubling.
Issues of what kind of behaviour a contemporary pop star can or should get away with may be tested again if multiple allegations against shock rocker Marilyn Manson ever reach court. At least 15 women (including his actor ex-girlfriend Evan Rachel Wood) have made accusations of abuse or assault. A California Court dismissed a rape allegation against him last week saying it did not reach evidential threshold, but it has since been refiled.

And perhaps the law courts really are the only place now to test the limits of acceptable behaviour, when the febrile atmosphere of social media can make debate dangerously heated in public forums, and reputations can be destroyed by allegation and counter-allegation. Should we shine a light back on the actions of the past and judge stars by the moral standards of today? Or will public opinion prefer to draw a veil, move on and perhaps more rigorously police the (mis)behaviour of today’s artists (as we saw in the case of rock star Ryan Adams, who was effectively “cancelled” for his predatory sexual behaviour towards young women in 2019, although the FBI decided there was no criminal case to answer?)
In the fall out from the R Kelly conviction, questions will surely be asked about how his fame protected him, and in what ways the industry and our whole pop culture was complicit. And what are we all going to do to stop this happening over and over again? The days of sex, drugs and rock and roll decadence being a badge of swaggering pride in the music business are surely coming to an end.
 

R Kelly’s conviction should send a shudder down the spine of the music business … if the business has a spine. I believe it is a watershed moment, when the #MeToo movement finally lands a telling blow on an industry and a culture that has long felt immune to moral censure.
A huge contemporary pop superstar has been found guilty in an American court of law of essentially using his fame, popularity and wealth to abuse young and vulnerable women and men who started out as fans and ended up as victims. The conviction may have been framed in the anti-organised crime legal terminology of racketeering, but the testimony heard in court shone a penetrating and unflattering spotlight on showbusiness itself.
Kelly’s conviction will send ominous reverberations through the whole music business star system, where famous performers (typically male) have exploited fans (typically star-dazed young women characterised as groupies) with casual impunity, protected by the hallowed reverence accorded to the famous, the willingness and availability of many victims, the complicity of self-serving entourages, and the apparent unwillingness of fans to believe the worst of their idols, or else to treat them as beyond ordinary reckoning. A lot of old rockers and veteran pop stars are likely to be getting a bit twitchy in the light of this verdict and wondering what the public appetite might be for examining hedonistic behaviour of the past.

Not that R Kelly was a typical pop star. He was an extreme sexual predator and abuser, with paedophilic inclinations. Court testimony spelled this graphically out, but rumours and allegations about Kelly have bubbled throughout his three-decade long career. They say there is no smoke without fire, but by the time Kelly was finally brought to trial, that fire was blazing like an inferno in the wake of an underage sex video scandal in 2002 (Kelly denied the man in the video was him), a (failed) prosecution for possession of child pornography in 2008, and several high profile investigative articles and documentaries, including the BBC 3’s R Kelly: Sex, Girls and Videotapes in 2018 and Lifetime’s six part series Surviving R Kelly in 2019.
During the run up to trial, Kelly’s own defence finally conceded his long-rumoured marriage to his teenage protégé Aaliyah in 1994, when she was 15 and Kelly was 27. Yet the truth of that particular story had been established by US music magazine Vibe back in January 1995, when they published a copy of the disputed marriage certificate (falsely registering Aaliyah’s age as 18). It failed to put a dent in Kelly’s career at all. Indeed, it may have added to his public allure as contemporary R’n’B’s most seductive and salacious soul lothario, a multiple award winning, multi-million selling master of an explicitly erotic vein of R’n’B that veers perilously between porn and corn.

Kelly’s own music was not held as evidence against him in court, but it is hard not to conclude that he has been hiding in plain sight. He wrote and produced the song Age Ain’t Nothin’ But A Number for Aliyaah when she was under the legal age of consent. Other unsubtle Kelly tracks include Sex Me, Sex Planet, Crazy Sex and Marry the P****. To quote just one of Kelly’s own lyrics about his perceived irresistible sexual allure, from 2017’s I’m a Flirt: “The moral of this story is cuff your b**** / Cause I’m black, handsome, I sing plus I’m rich.”
However, he is still probably best known in this country for aspirational gospel-tinged anthem I Believe I Can Fly, a number one 1996 hit from the soundtrack of animated kids basketball movie Space Jam. How are fans going to feel about watching that with their young ones now? Like Michael Jackson’s music, Kelly’s songs have been shifted into an ambiguous space, tainted by association. Some fans will continue to listen to Kelly for what his music represents in their personal memories, but I expect that he will become persona non grata on radio stations and in sync deals.
But that is the least of the music industry’s worries. There may be some attempt to portray Kelly as a criminal aberration, akin to such disgraced former stars as Gary Glitter and Phil Spector. But Kelly is the most famous living pop star ever to be taken down so unambiguously by the justice system for a type of behaviour rumoured to be rife throughout pop history. According to court testimony, behind the scenes Kelly used the “genius” defence for his own moral turpitude. He apparently compared himself to Jerry Lee Lewis, who’s own career survived (albeit barely) a scandal following his marriage to his 13-year-old cousin Myra in 1957. “He’s a genius, I’m a genius,” Kelly is reported to have said. “We should be allowed to do whatever we want.”

So should they? This is a question that the #MeToo movement has forced the music industry and music lovers alike to address. To throw just a few potential historic scandals into the spotlight, Elvis Presley dated future wife Priscilla when she was 14 and lived with her when she turned 17; teenage groupie Lori Maddox alleged that David Bowie took her virginity at 14; Jimmy Page of Led Zeppelin was alleged by Maddox (again) to have begun an affair with her when she was only 15; Iggy Pop boasted of sleeping with Maddox’s friend Sable Starr “when she was 13” on a 1996 album Naughty Little Doggy; and in 1975 Steven Tyler of Aerosmith persuaded the mother of his 16-year-old girlfriend Julia Holcomb to sign over guardianship of her daughter so that they could travel interstate without fear of arrest. In Aerosmith’s 1997 autobiography, Tyler is quoted as saying “(She) lost her childhood. I lost my mind.”
Those are all well known rock and roll stories, but who doubts that they represent just the tip of a particular cultural iceberg? As Roger Taylor of Queen said about his seventies rock stardom in a recent Telegraph interview: “It was part of the job to have an outrageously decadent good time. And we certainly had our share. I don’t think we were the worst or the most extreme, but yeah, we were close. Boy you wouldn’t get away with any of that stuff now. More’s the pity.” Of course, Taylor wasn’t referring to the abuse of underage girls, but the implications are still troubling.
Issues of what kind of behaviour a contemporary pop star can or should get away with may be tested again if multiple allegations against shock rocker Marilyn Manson ever reach court. At least 15 women (including his actor ex-girlfriend Evan Rachel Wood) have made accusations of abuse or assault. A California Court dismissed a rape allegation against him last week saying it did not reach evidential threshold, but it has since been refiled.

And perhaps the law courts really are the only place now to test the limits of acceptable behaviour, when the febrile atmosphere of social media can make debate dangerously heated in public forums, and reputations can be destroyed by allegation and counter-allegation. Should we shine a light back on the actions of the past and judge stars by the moral standards of today? Or will public opinion prefer to draw a veil, move on and perhaps more rigorously police the (mis)behaviour of today’s artists (as we saw in the case of rock star Ryan Adams, who was effectively “cancelled” for his predatory sexual behaviour towards young women in 2019, although the FBI decided there was no criminal case to answer?)
In the fall out from the R Kelly conviction, questions will surely be asked about how his fame protected him, and in what ways the industry and our whole pop culture was complicit. And what are we all going to do to stop this happening over and over again? The days of sex, drugs and rock and roll decadence being a badge of swaggering pride in the music business are surely coming to an end.
Wishful thinking that this will smarten the music industry up, there are way to many players involved for it to just unravel. Weinstein being convicted didn’t cause a tsunami of downfalls in the movie industry and Kelly’s won’t either. In the entertainment industry it was Michael Jackson who intrenched the belief you can do whatever horrendous acts you wish on children and get away with it in the end, pathetically he proved it to be true.
 
But as I'm sure you know, rape isn't about sex, it's about power and control. From what I've read about Kelly, selected his victims carefully and groomed them in the usual ways. It seems that many were adolescents (male and female) who were fans of his music and easy pickings for a skilled predator. He even married one victim, Aaliyah, when she was 15 so she couldn't be compelled to testify against him.

I like to think I'm a civilised person but I admit to wishing severe retribution on those who abuse children and other vulnerable groups.


That's what annoys me about the green-haired feminists, who bang on about men are bastards and rapists, blah, blah.

If they really looked into it, exactly the same bastards and rapists, are the ones who get into positions of power, then make the lives of decent men a living hell as well.

I've never raped or assaulted a woman, I've got 2 daughters, who love me and want to spend time with me, and were so much loved as they grow up, and the father of my new grand daughter, is exactly the same, besotted with her.

To these sort of psychopaths, sex is power, they are completely incapable of a loving relationship with another human.......
 

TamH70

MIA
Wishful thinking that this will smarten the music industry up, there are way to many players involved for it to just unravel. Weinstein being convicted didn’t cause a tsunami of downfalls in the movie industry and Kelly’s won’t either. In the entertainment industry it was Michael Jackson who intrenched the belief you can do whatever horrendous acts you wish on children and get away with it in the end, pathetically he proved it to be true.

Apart from every criminal charge he faced being found to be complete bullshit and the multi-millions he paid out in settlements to his alleged victims being forced on him by the scum in Sony, and every lawsuit brought by alleged victims since his death being absolutely laughed out of court as the allegations were faker than Greta Thunberg's actual green convictions.

As a certain wise Razorfist once said, if Michael Jackson had fucked kids, we'd never have heard word one about it.

I must admit I was convinced of his guilt for quite a long time until I worked out just why the media were going all-in on it, and it all boiled down to billions in dollars of books, movies, television shows and online content that would have been garnered if he'd been slammed into jail for boffing boys of a pre-legal persuasion that didn't come their way after his trial in California went mammaries upwards for a particularly shitty California D.A.
 

Aphra

Old-Salt

R Kelly’s conviction should send a shudder down the spine of the music business … if the business has a spine. I believe it is a watershed moment, when the #MeToo movement finally lands a telling blow on an industry and a culture that has long felt immune to moral censure.
A huge contemporary pop superstar has been found guilty in an American court of law of essentially using his fame, popularity and wealth to abuse young and vulnerable women and men who started out as fans and ended up as victims. The conviction may have been framed in the anti-organised crime legal terminology of racketeering, but the testimony heard in court shone a penetrating and unflattering spotlight on showbusiness itself.
Kelly’s conviction will send ominous reverberations through the whole music business star system, where famous performers (typically male) have exploited fans (typically star-dazed young women characterised as groupies) with casual impunity, protected by the hallowed reverence accorded to the famous, the willingness and availability of many victims, the complicity of self-serving entourages, and the apparent unwillingness of fans to believe the worst of their idols, or else to treat them as beyond ordinary reckoning. A lot of old rockers and veteran pop stars are likely to be getting a bit twitchy in the light of this verdict and wondering what the public appetite might be for examining hedonistic behaviour of the past.

Not that R Kelly was a typical pop star. He was an extreme sexual predator and abuser, with paedophilic inclinations. Court testimony spelled this graphically out, but rumours and allegations about Kelly have bubbled throughout his three-decade long career. They say there is no smoke without fire, but by the time Kelly was finally brought to trial, that fire was blazing like an inferno in the wake of an underage sex video scandal in 2002 (Kelly denied the man in the video was him), a (failed) prosecution for possession of child pornography in 2008, and several high profile investigative articles and documentaries, including the BBC 3’s R Kelly: Sex, Girls and Videotapes in 2018 and Lifetime’s six part series Surviving R Kelly in 2019.
During the run up to trial, Kelly’s own defence finally conceded his long-rumoured marriage to his teenage protégé Aaliyah in 1994, when she was 15 and Kelly was 27. Yet the truth of that particular story had been established by US music magazine Vibe back in January 1995, when they published a copy of the disputed marriage certificate (falsely registering Aaliyah’s age as 18). It failed to put a dent in Kelly’s career at all. Indeed, it may have added to his public allure as contemporary R’n’B’s most seductive and salacious soul lothario, a multiple award winning, multi-million selling master of an explicitly erotic vein of R’n’B that veers perilously between porn and corn.

Kelly’s own music was not held as evidence against him in court, but it is hard not to conclude that he has been hiding in plain sight. He wrote and produced the song Age Ain’t Nothin’ But A Number for Aliyaah when she was under the legal age of consent. Other unsubtle Kelly tracks include Sex Me, Sex Planet, Crazy Sex and Marry the P****. To quote just one of Kelly’s own lyrics about his perceived irresistible sexual allure, from 2017’s I’m a Flirt: “The moral of this story is cuff your b**** / Cause I’m black, handsome, I sing plus I’m rich.”
However, he is still probably best known in this country for aspirational gospel-tinged anthem I Believe I Can Fly, a number one 1996 hit from the soundtrack of animated kids basketball movie Space Jam. How are fans going to feel about watching that with their young ones now? Like Michael Jackson’s music, Kelly’s songs have been shifted into an ambiguous space, tainted by association. Some fans will continue to listen to Kelly for what his music represents in their personal memories, but I expect that he will become persona non grata on radio stations and in sync deals.
But that is the least of the music industry’s worries. There may be some attempt to portray Kelly as a criminal aberration, akin to such disgraced former stars as Gary Glitter and Phil Spector. But Kelly is the most famous living pop star ever to be taken down so unambiguously by the justice system for a type of behaviour rumoured to be rife throughout pop history. According to court testimony, behind the scenes Kelly used the “genius” defence for his own moral turpitude. He apparently compared himself to Jerry Lee Lewis, who’s own career survived (albeit barely) a scandal following his marriage to his 13-year-old cousin Myra in 1957. “He’s a genius, I’m a genius,” Kelly is reported to have said. “We should be allowed to do whatever we want.”

So should they? This is a question that the #MeToo movement has forced the music industry and music lovers alike to address. To throw just a few potential historic scandals into the spotlight, Elvis Presley dated future wife Priscilla when she was 14 and lived with her when she turned 17; teenage groupie Lori Maddox alleged that David Bowie took her virginity at 14; Jimmy Page of Led Zeppelin was alleged by Maddox (again) to have begun an affair with her when she was only 15; Iggy Pop boasted of sleeping with Maddox’s friend Sable Starr “when she was 13” on a 1996 album Naughty Little Doggy; and in 1975 Steven Tyler of Aerosmith persuaded the mother of his 16-year-old girlfriend Julia Holcomb to sign over guardianship of her daughter so that they could travel interstate without fear of arrest. In Aerosmith’s 1997 autobiography, Tyler is quoted as saying “(She) lost her childhood. I lost my mind.”
Those are all well known rock and roll stories, but who doubts that they represent just the tip of a particular cultural iceberg? As Roger Taylor of Queen said about his seventies rock stardom in a recent Telegraph interview: “It was part of the job to have an outrageously decadent good time. And we certainly had our share. I don’t think we were the worst or the most extreme, but yeah, we were close. Boy you wouldn’t get away with any of that stuff now. More’s the pity.” Of course, Taylor wasn’t referring to the abuse of underage girls, but the implications are still troubling.
Issues of what kind of behaviour a contemporary pop star can or should get away with may be tested again if multiple allegations against shock rocker Marilyn Manson ever reach court. At least 15 women (including his actor ex-girlfriend Evan Rachel Wood) have made accusations of abuse or assault. A California Court dismissed a rape allegation against him last week saying it did not reach evidential threshold, but it has since been refiled.

And perhaps the law courts really are the only place now to test the limits of acceptable behaviour, when the febrile atmosphere of social media can make debate dangerously heated in public forums, and reputations can be destroyed by allegation and counter-allegation. Should we shine a light back on the actions of the past and judge stars by the moral standards of today? Or will public opinion prefer to draw a veil, move on and perhaps more rigorously police the (mis)behaviour of today’s artists (as we saw in the case of rock star Ryan Adams, who was effectively “cancelled” for his predatory sexual behaviour towards young women in 2019, although the FBI decided there was no criminal case to answer?)
In the fall out from the R Kelly conviction, questions will surely be asked about how his fame protected him, and in what ways the industry and our whole pop culture was complicit. And what are we all going to do to stop this happening over and over again? The days of sex, drugs and rock and roll decadence being a badge of swaggering pride in the music business are surely coming to an end.
I couldn't agree more.

As to rock/pop stars attracting young women, they don't even have to be famous. I have several friends who are in bands and play all over the area in pubs and bars, at local music festivals and so on. They range in age from mid 30's to late 60's and are lead singers, guitarists, drummers. They range in looks from boyband pretty to outright fugly but the one thing they have in common is drunk women and girls (and the occasional man) swarming them during set breaks or at the end of gigs. My friends are married/taken and thoroughly decent blokes so they graciously decline to get entangled but it's easy to see how it could turn your head to thinking it's your right to treat people badly because they're so easy to get.
 
Tyson reckons he burned through a billion. A billion. That's a sick joke. I can't even conceive of how to start doing that.

(Okay, I could buy the manual off Tyson but you know what I mean.)
Fifty million here, a hundred million there...

It's easily done you know...
 
He even married one victim, Aaliyah, when she was 15 so she couldn't be compelled to testify against him.
Then flaunted it by making an album for her called "Age ain't nothing but a number"
 

Aphra

Old-Salt
That's what annoys me about the green-haired feminists, who bang on about men are bastards and rapists, blah, blah.

If they really looked into it, exactly the same bastards and rapists, are the ones who get into positions of power, then make the lives of decent men a living hell as well.

I've never raped or assaulted a woman, I've got 2 daughters, who love me and want to spend time with me, and were so much loved as they grow up, and the father of my new grand daughter, is exactly the same, besotted with her.

To these sort of psychopaths, sex is power, they are completely incapable of a loving relationship with another human.......
Well said. I'm sure your daughters and granddaughter have the confidence and self worth not to get involved with anyone unworthy of them. it sounds like they've had the role model of what a decent bloke is like during their formative years and can identify the wrong 'uns at fifty paces.
 
Even if you're totally innocent of any wrongdoing, it must be terrifying that you'll have to spend millions of your fortune, fighting off the constant stream of shitehawks on legal aid.......
 

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