The 51mm Mortar

#1
STEP ON IT

The folks from FNH also brought with them a tamer tube weapon - a compact, 51mm "toe mortar."

Manufactured by Titanite S.A., the FLY-K-TN8111 (where do they get these designations?) weighs in just shy of 10 pounds. Its maximum range is 650 meters.

The FLY-K is designed to take out point targets, such as machine-gun positions and snipers. Under most battlefield conditions, the system can be fired without giving away its position. It has a very low acoustic signature - less than 52 decibels at 100 meters - and fires smokeless, flashless ammo.

In addition to high-explosive ammunition, several other types of mortar rounds are available for this shoulder-carried weapon. Two of the more interesting types are an infrared illuminating round and a percussion round that functions under water.

The system's big brother, an electronically fired 12-round system, is dubbed the FLY-K-TN8464. This 220-pound unit, effective out to 800 meters, is an area-protection system that can be hauled around in the back of a small, open military vehicle, mounted on a light armored vehicle, set up on a beach or used to cover some other likely avenue of enemy approach. A 12-round salvo with high-explosive fragmentation ammo is sufficient to saturate an area of 130 meters by 80 meters with 6,960 preformed fragments, its manufacturer points out. This larger system was not demonstrated during the Shoot-out.

Our evaluators liked the shoulder-carried FLY-K. "A great weapon," said one. He noted that the rather small base plate for the system settled quickly in the soft sand on the Blackwater range. ""Might want to consider a slightly broader base adapter for use in desert/soft soil," he noted.

Other comments about the system pointed out that it "could be useful if the system is fired in rapid succession, as in close combat situations. Overall, a great weapon. My only concern is about night sighting."

Said another: "Very interesting to be able to carry as effective a weapon as this in so small and simple a package." He went on, however, to succinctly allude to the fact that this might not be the right time to try to generate U.S. interest in the system: "Unfortunately," he concluded, "it is French."

From armed forces journal

Why is it, when companies are, by the sounds of the above still pursuing 51mm mortars, that we are supposedly getting rid of ours? The above weapon, sounds almost identical to what we have got in sevice and have had for a long while. The UGL cannot anywhere near match the effects of 51, doesn't have all the ammunition natures 51 has, nor the range. 51 gives the platoon some low level, but guaranteed indirect fire capability, it has shown it's worth repeatedly on both telic and herrick. What i the sketch here, is a replacement seriously going through the pipeline, and if so will it be ready in time that we don't have a gap in capabilitys as the 51 is taken out of service before the replacement is ready? Has the move been flagged up as a bad one by commanders? Most importantly is it still going ahead or has someone on high seen sense?
 
#2
Well the 60mm mortars in service even stabs are getting to play with it guess fn missed the boat .
 
#3
307 said:
The weapon, sounds almost identical to what we have got in sevice and have had for a long while. The UGL cannot anywhere near match the effects of 51, doesn't have all the ammunition natures 51 has, nor the range. 51 gives the platoon some low level, but guaranteed indirect fire capability, it has shown it's worth repeatedly on both telic and herrick. What i the sketch here, is a replacement seriously going through the pipeline, and if so will it be ready in time that we don't have a gap in capabilitys as the 51 is taken out of service before the replacement is ready? Has the move been flagged up as a bad one by commanders? Most importantly is it still going ahead or has someone on high seen sense?
The UGL is not meant to match the capability of he 51mm. It is to bridge the gap between the maximum throw of the L109 and the minimum range of a mortar.

There are smoke and illum rds available for the UGL we just don't by them.

There is no gap in capability. 51mm ammunition is available in theatres and for Ops training.

Med Man will be using the last of the Non Ops / Ops trg ammo this season. We will be receiving 60mm mortar ammunition next season.
 
#5
There are 40mm MV rounds available that can reach 900m with accuracy. There was a demo at SPTA last week that fired some rounds from the H&K and the L1A2 - much betetr than the old 51mm RIP.
 
#8
The Fly-K is an old design - it's been around for at least 20 years. It's comletely different to our 51mm: it's a 'spigot mortar', not unlike the old Home Guard 'Blacker Bombard' or the PIAT.
 
#9
There is a requirement for a new 60mm Mortar - excluding ammo - which will be bought to replace 51mm as well as enhance exisiting stocks of 60mm-

Problem is the ammo may not be complaint witht the new mortar system which may not be Hirtenberger - another costly mistake perhaps. !!!

If all else fails, try giving up.
 
#10
Expressions of interset are sought from companies wishing to be considered for inclusion in a possible future requirement for the supply of approximately 630 (six hundred and thirty) 60mm Mortar Barrels. This procurement is for Mortar Barrels only and does not include Ammunition. The procurement is intended to replce the in-service 51mm Mortar system and it is intended that the User shall be providfed with a capability that is man portable and can deliver the following effects: HE, Smoke, White and IR Illum. A Military Off the Shelf (MOTS) procurement is envisaged. The following Key User Requirements (KURs) must be met by any system proposed for this requirement: (1) The user shall be able to deliver HE, Smoke, Illumination *Incl IR) without replacing the sighting system, by day and night, without the use of an external lighting source and from hard and soft ground.(2) The minimum range achieveable must be no greater than 250m, with a desirable minimum range of 50m. The maximum range achieveable must be no less than 100m, with a range of 1400m or more desirable. (3) The user shall be able to neutralise the enemy with a rate of fire of 8 bombs per minute, for a total of 5 minutes. (4)The user shall be able to suppress the enemy with a rate of fire of 3 bombs per minute for a total of 10 minutes. (5)The user requires a system that is capable of firing the UK in-service 60mm Mortar ammunition. (6)The user, when firing HE, shall have a high probability of accurately engaging the target. A 50% probability of a 2nd round hit is esssential and a 60% probability of a 2nd round hit is desirable. (7)The user shall be able to conduct his designated Battle Field Mission (BFM) whilst carrying the system in its ready state. Importance will be placed on a compact, balanced design, with a lack of sharp edges and protuberances. (8)The user shall be able to operate the system in the following climatic environments: - A1, A2, A3, B1, B2, B3, C1, C2, M1, M2.(9) The user shall be provided with a system that can be carried by a single operator. (10) All operators shall be able to complete the Battlefield Task (BFT), with an essential probability of 95% and a desirable probability of 99%. Definition of the BFT is available from the LWPB/IPT on request. The final, fully supportable system will be expected to provide an initial delivery of approximately quantity 72 Mortar Barrels by no later than November 2010, with final deliveries completing by no later than July 2011. Companies wishing to registeran Expression of Interest should submit the following information to the LWPB/IPT by 31 July 2008: (i) Details of the system proposed to meet the KURs; (ii) Details of company structure including technical capability and details of any simsilar programmes undertaken; (iii) Details of Quality Assurance Accreditation, its scope and any exclusions. Any tender documentation issued in connection with this programme will specify ISO 9001:2000 or equivalent. Accreditation to be issued by a UKAS recognised 3rd party Certification body. Additionally, as UKAS is a signatory to the International Accreditation Forum - Multi Lateral Agreement (IAF-MLA), Certificates issued by overseas certifying bodies that are accredited by an accreditation organisation that is also a signatory to the IAF-MLA, will be viewed in the same light as one issued by a certifying body accredited by UKAS.; (iv) Please provide delivery lead times for quantity 12 Barrels for Trials. Companies with proposals that seem to meet the KUR's and posses appropriate Quality Assurance Accreditation, may be invited to complete a Pre-Qualification Questionnaire (PQQ), which will be used to select companies to provide systems for Trials. Following the PQQ down-select process, it is envisaged that the Trials Programme will be conducted as follows: Initial User Trials; Safety and Suitability for Service (S3) and Climatic Trials: likely to commence in May 2009. Companies whose products are unsuccessful at these Trials will be excluded from further participation in subsequent phases of the programme. An Invitation to Tender for full Production quantities will be issued at an appropriate point during the Trials process.
That was posted on the European defence agencies electronic contract board, tender's have to be in by the 31st of this month.
 
#11
I think that the 60mm Mortar is already in theatre in limited numbers. DC IPT has already designed and manufactured the mortar bomb carrying day sack to take the 60mm rounds in conjunction with the other IPT.
 

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