The ‘Cricket Test’ and Naturalisation.

Discussion in 'Multinational HQ' started by Jailorinummqasr, Jan 19, 2006.

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  1. I was watching the Three Minute Wonder on C4 last night about citizenship ceremonies that UK now has.

    Since Mrs Jailor (a US citizen) will be going through the process in the next few years and I may one day go through the US equivalent. It got me thinking about the meaning of Citizenship. I can guarantee that neither Mr nor Mrs Jailor would pass the Cricket Test when we become citizens of each other counties.

    The Cricket Test was suggested by a Norman Tebbit, MP, (A right wing conservative) as a means of determining whether immigrants to the UK should have citizenship. The idea being that those individuals wishing to become UK citizens should support the English Cricket Team rather than their ‘home’ team e.g. the W Indies, India, Pakistan etc…

    So apart from going through the arbitrary process of naturalization to become a citizen of the UK or US what is in it for us and the country in question?

    I believe it is important that we going through the process and I will be very proud of Mrs Jailor when she becomes a UK citizen. I feel it is important for our children to witness the process, so they understand the value of dual citizenship that they have. It will enable us to explain to our children about the histories, values, and culture of respective countries.

    However, I believe ultimately taht I will always swear allegiance to the Queen first and the USA second and no doubt whatever Mrs Jailor thinks about GWB she ultimately will always be loyal to the USA first and the UK second. Irrespective of the oaths we may say or the passports we hold.

    My Grandfather an immigrant from the Czech Republic never let go of his country and with the end of communism moved back within weeks. He however, paid his debt to the UK as a solider and doctor.

    We live in Globalized world, with fairly free trade and movement of people (unlike previous generations). We are able to choose where live based upon, our circumstance at any given time. We are not looking for help from either government but wish to be free to do the best for our children and ourselves.

    I have posted it here as a variety of nationals use this forum and I don’t want slide in an argument will those who support the BNP in other forums.

    What I would like to establish is:

    Am I alone with this view, those who have emigrated what is your experience?
    If I am not alone in this view, what does that mean for countries with large immigrant populations?
    Does this mean that the notion of citizenship is dead, in a globalized world?
  2. You have probably answered some of your questions yourself.

    The 'Cricket Test' was and is barking. Old Norm really excelled here and his rabid rantings probably poured out after one too many. No-one could reasonably expect a recently arrived immigrant to suddenly switch allegiance to their adopted country in every aspect of their life. Gradual assmilation, with plenty of give and take from both sides may possibly bring them further into the fold - but not, in a month of Sundays, to complete acceptance. However, what is key is the way in which their adopted country appears acceptable to them as somewhere where they might want to inculcate that country's values and standards in their children and grandchildren. In other words the first generation will always hark back to their mother country - and that is quite understandable. How well the second and third generations become immersed in their adopted country's culture / values / standards is the measure by which we should guage the success of immigration policies.

    Which is why the London bombings are a pointer to a dangerous degree of failure.
  3. I suggest you re-read (or even read) his speech, not the race industries rantings about it.
  4. I take great offence to Norman Tebbit MP's propossed 'cricket test',
    I was born in the north/west UK and have spent most of my life in NZ and i find a test based on 'cricket' absolute galling to the extream!!

    Cricket?!?!? you poof!! its RUGBY that should be the standard!

    although when i am living in NZ i support the British Lions, and when i'm in the UK i support the All Blacks :D little 'ol facecious me. :wink:
  5. I am not sure Cricket is the best model to detremine UK/US loyalties.

    Mr and Mrs Jailor had the misfortune of watching the USA cricket team being put to the sword by Australia last year! Not a pleasant experience, thankfully it only lasted 2 hours!

    USA (66ao), Austalia (67/0 in 7 Overs)
  6. The Rugby Test (as applied by Capt Plume):

    If England are playing support England.

    If Ireland are playing supprt Ireland.

    If France are playing support France's opponents.

    If it's England/Ireland support whoever's winning!
  7. ouch.
  8. Good question, Jailor, and a good move to post it in here for the reasons you cite.

    I definitely fail the cricket test. I know this because I’ve been granted an Australian resident visa and will soon be migrating there. I intend to take dual UK/Australian citizenship, and whilst I will happily fulfil all the requirements of the citizenship oath I will remain at heart an Englishman. Not for jingoistic reasons, but just because it’s what I am and always will be.

    Of course when Australia are playing anyone other than England, then I’ll be rooting (in the English sense of the word!) for them.
  9. Pedantic maybe, but it wasn't mentioned in a speech: it was brought up in an interview with the Los Angeles Times in 1990. However still not one of Norman's most lucid offerings.
  10. Rugby XV's you poof!! Its Rugby XIII's surely given that you come from up north....Back to following the Bronco's as Halequins XIII this year for me...
  11. I have both UK and NZ passports, I was born in NZ but grew up in UK, now live in NL with Canadian woman.

    If the All Blacks are playing I support them.

    If England are playing anyone other than NZ I support them.

    If Scotland / Wales / Ireland / N. Ireland are playing anyone else but NZ or England I support them.

    If anyone is playing the French I support them.
  12. are you allowed dual citizenship in USA if you originally have a UK passport and become a US citizen, can you retain your UK passport ?
  13. Semper wrote:
    As far as I understand US law the answer is Yes. My son is already a daul national with both passports, although he is much happier using them as a teething toy at present.

    Dogface wrote:

    Moving away from sport and returning back to the original question.

    As a Brit who obviously is open to the idea of immigration, I think Storman_Norman points about the 2nd and 3rd generation is valid. Having just signed on for another 10 years, there are limited chances for me & Mrs Jailor to expose Jalior Jnr to the customs/values/beliefs of the USA despite him being a US Citizen. We will have to consider that aspect of his upbringing carefully in the years to come.

    Now assuming that we were to move to the US in 2017 when I am due to leave forces, clearly Jailor Jnr will experience a steep learning curve but at least he will be in school. For me things are different, I am able to attain a Green Card with relative ease and therefore should be able to work and start the process of integration into US Society. At some point thereafter I assume that I would commence the process of becoming citizen (assuming we are staying long term).

    As I have said in heart I (assume that) will always be Brit first and a septic second despite this (and accepting the essence of the oath) I could foresee myself taking the oath. (If for no other reason than the tax and representation argument). Now for me the words are of less importance that how you apply yourself to your new home. I have no desire or interest in undermining the US or its constitution, but I would be stakeholder in society and thus would willing undertake mil/civ service in aid of the US.

    What I would like to hear the users of this board are:

    Can a very UK/Commonwealth (I think the UK/Aus and UK/NZ comments sum up what I mean) attitude to citizenship be applied to US/UK relationship?

    Is my attitude (whether right or wrong) rational?

    Please, please this is not a w.a.h. I have been trying to resolve my views on this citizenship thing for a while. Talking to the in-laws only builds up the expectation that Jailor Jnr will be living in the US sooner rather than later and sadly Mrs Jailor sees the essence of the US as perpetual battle over Roe vs Wade. All views greatly received and Dog Face please don't report me to the FBI
  14. Let's look at Norman's theory from the opposite end.

    There are plenty of 'British' living in the commonwealth, some who are 2nd, 3rd or greater generation non-UK born. I've met them in South Africa, Australia, NZ, India and so on and so on. Just about all of them would support a touring team from the UK over their 'home' team in just about any sport -not jsut cricket.

    'Tebbit's test' may not be an appropriate test for UK citizenship, but it certainly does have resonance - and works BOTH ways!!!