THAT rifle

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
This gives me a flashback, to my company dismounting from our APCs in order to advance on a Syrian army position in Southern Lebanon in 1982 and some uptight rupert shouting "Off with those flak jackets! What kind of soldiers are you - advancing to engage wearing flak jackets - how do you think you're going to fight?!?!" (Our flak jackets were the new at that time Israeli lightweight type)
Nowadays you'd get into trouble for NOT wearing ceramic......
I take it he was leading from the front carrying only a sefer torah ?
 

HE117

LE
I seem to remember ear plugs being on general issue from 1968. They were moulded plastic and came in a little white tube with either a blue, green or red label for small medium or large. They were supposed to be fitted by medically trained personnel, but all I recall was the AcIG standing with a pair of tweezers to recover small plugs when they went in too far!
 

Bluenose2

Old-Salt
I recall a convo with my Dad about ear plug when he spotted my STAB-issue ones in the mid-90s.

He scoffed that he'd done 9 years in RM, including active service and 2 years in the Eastney Barracks shooting team (which won Bedfords-full of trophies at the time) without once resorting to ear protection and 'it had never done him any harm'.

But a few years later he was deaf as a post. He argued black and blue (and LOUDLY) that the thousands 7.62 and 9mm rounds on the ranges hadn't affected him, and that it was down to being close to a 105 (?) being fired off the back of the Bulwark on the trip to Aden and being on the end of a mortar strike a few weeks later.

Stubborn old bugger.

He also had the dubious honour of using an Armalite and SLR on moving targets in the same deployment. Needless to say which one he preferred, despite having no sense of pride in the end result of either.
 
I started my basic in 76 at Catterick, for the life of me I really don’t remember wearing ear plugs / ear defender.
It wasn’t until I got to my Regt in Germany, did my first AWT and 76 gunnery training that I wore ear defenders.
 
I seem to remember ear plugs being on general issue from 1968. They were moulded plastic and came in a little white tube with either a blue, green or red label for small medium or large. They were supposed to be fitted by medically trained personnel, but all I recall was the AcIG standing with a pair of tweezers to recover small plugs when they went in too far!
Still have mine in my range box, mind you they're about as much use as scuba gear on a fish.
 

woger wabbit

War Hero
I'm genuinely intrigued. I'm interested in your whacky logic there, Tamtam fella! You claim, "can you fückin' blame them when you come out with shite like this", as a response to my post, yet the post you cited was "after" the posts I'd cited - if that makes sense. In other words: you want me to decry posts answering to my posts before they even appear? Nice one!

MsG
Huh?????
 
Even people working around jet engines didnt get ear defenders until we got the screeching Fouga jet in the Air Corps in 1977, despite already having the Alouette helicopter since 1963
A former work mate of mine was ex RAF from the sixties and he was "selectively deaf" from his time spent as a liney before ear defs were introduced.

Selectively deaf = only heard what he wanted to hear, although his hearing had suffered.
 
This gives me a flashback, to my company dismounting from our APCs in order to advance on a Syrian army position in Southern Lebanon in 1982 and some uptight rupert shouting "Off with those flak jackets! What kind of soldiers are you - advancing to engage wearing flak jackets - how do you think you're going to fight?!?!" (Our flak jackets were the new at that time Israeli lightweight type)
Nowadays you'd get into trouble for NOT wearing ceramic......
Just what had that rupert been smoking/injecting? Or had he reached state without the use of mind expanding substances?
 

4(T)

LE
I recall a convo with my Dad about ear plug when he spotted my STAB-issue ones in the mid-90s.

He scoffed that he'd done 9 years in RM, including active service and 2 years in the Eastney Barracks shooting team (which won Bedfords-full of trophies at the time) without once resorting to ear protection and 'it had never done him any harm'.

But a few years later he was deaf as a post. He argued black and blue (and LOUDLY) that the thousands 7.62 and 9mm rounds on the ranges hadn't affected him, and that it was down to being close to a 105 (?) being fired off the back of the Bulwark on the trip to Aden and being on the end of a mortar strike a few weeks later.

Stubborn old bugger.

He also had the dubious honour of using an Armalite and SLR on moving targets in the same deployment. Needless to say which one he preferred, despite having no sense of pride in the end result of either.

Strange thing is that zillions of men fought wars and did competitive shooting without hearing protection, yet only a small proportion seem to have gone on to experience hearing problems.

I've often wondered whether there is a physiological protection system built into ears that protects them when adrenaline is pumping.

I say that because it is noticeable that, if you shoot or experience detonations without ear protection whilst in, er, a charged state of emotion, there is often no after-effect such as ringing or temporary deafness, etc. By contrast, if you shoot the same weapon on a range without hearing protection, you most definitely have an after-effect.
 
Just what had that rupert been smoking/injecting? Or had he reached state without the use of mind expanding substances?
In those days procedures required wearing them when using the .50 and .30 BMG, on APC's (due to presence of said weapons) and on nighttime patrols on open patrol vehicles. Wearing them while doing other infantry tasks on foot wasn't SOP, indeed in the Rupert incident, I and most of my section had dismounted sans vests.
 
I started my basic in 76 at Catterick, for the life of me I really don’t remember wearing ear plugs / ear defender.
It wasn’t until I got to my Regt in Germany, did my first AWT and 76 gunnery training that I wore ear defenders.
Certainly in the Thatcher Youth (DYRMS) we wore amplivox on the range, both indoor and outdoor, from 1973. Both .22 and .303.

On joining up I was issued with ‘peanuts’.

The only time we didn’t wear them was when firing blanks.
 
Thanks for that. You say the claims dated back decades, I wonder why something similar did not arise in the UK, surely back in the 1960s the MOD wasn't at the forefront of elf'n'safetee and tens of thousands of service personnel must have had similar hearing damage.
I remember the potential for a payout went round like wildfire and many of the old and bold who had served prior to 1965 (Think Aden was when hearing damage came under the spotlight) on retirement all put in claims for hearing damage and subsequently were awarded War pensions. My dad and many of his buddies got £100 per month for life. My hearing was knackered care of an MBT going bang in 1981 and I got the mantra that less than 20% of my hearing was damaged but I still got a £1500 one off payout.
 
I was issued with ear plugs ( which I still have, In their little white tube) in 1972, we all were, I don't know if my predecessors were, and it was Ridgeley enforced when on the ranges. When I got to BAOR, the lads bought their own gun muffs, from the local gun shops in town, this was in the early 70's. I don't ever remember anyone complaining of hearing damage. This was in the days of THAT rifle and the 9mm sterling SMG.
I think the thing is we didn't know out hearing was buggered, we were around loud noises all the time, ranges, vehicles, shouty people. It was only when we were out clubbing or in a crowded noisy mess when we all shouted!
Hearing protecting pre the wee red things in the plastic container was a wad of 4x2 stuck in your lug!
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
This is intriguing:


It's been mentioned before that the FAL had to scale up to become the SLR. It wasn't originally a 7.62mm design and was probably running at close to its limits. Remember that the EM-2 was also .280 because that's what we'd determined was the optimum calibre. Then the US inflicted 7.62 on NATO before changing its mind overnight and going for 5.56.

@ugly could probably add something here.
 
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