THAT rifle

So, on a tactics exam, I said I would defend part of the farm complex by digging trenches in the earthen barn floor and loopholing the Victorian engineering brick barn wall, the same bricks our barracks range backstop was made of. Highly effective tactic, used extensively in Stalingrad. I might only be a Lt, but a keen student of military history. As handloader of my own ammo I also had a passable understanding of ballistics and kinetics.
Why would they have used engineering bricks to build a barn?
A lot of houses were built with bricks burned on-site and the quality of house bricks was very variable. They were also using lime mortar until around the 1840s or '50s.
I've been told of someone being shot through a house wall with a SLR; I wasn't there so can't say it's true.
 

Handlebarbleep

Old-Salt
Why would they have used engineering bricks to build a barn?
A lot of houses were built with bricks burned on-site and the quality of house bricks was very variable. They were also using lime mortar until around the 1840s or '50s.
I've been told of someone being shot through a house wall with a SLR; I wasn't there so can't say it's true.
Victorian building, more common than you think. They tended to build to last. I got the impression it was some sort of ‘model farm’ on the estate. Go figure.


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Why would they have used engineering bricks to build a barn?
A lot of houses were built with bricks burned on-site and the quality of house bricks was very variable. They were also using lime mortar until around the 1840s or '50s.
I've been told of someone being shot through a house wall with a SLR; I wasn't there so can't say it's true.
Not out of an L1A1 but I've shot a standard brick wall (brick outer, construction block inner) using ammunition close to mil spec (.308, 150gr FMJ @2.700fps).
At 100m it shattered the brick with minor spalling but failed to break through the cavity to the other side.
At 200m it failed to break through to the cavity.

Somewhat OT but standard 62gr 5,56 without the penetrator will reliably penetrate 3/8"(9mm) mild steel plate at 200m but 147gr 7.62 fails more often than not.
 

Handlebarbleep

Old-Salt
Not out of an L1A1 but I've shot a standard brick wall (brick outer, construction block inner) using ammunition close to mil spec (.308, 150gr FMJ @2.700fps).
At 100m it shattered the brick with minor spalling but failed to break through the cavity to the other side.
At 200m it failed to break through to the cavity.

Somewhat OT but standard 62gr 5,56 without the penetrator will reliably penetrate 3/8"(9mm) mild steel plate at 200m but 147gr 7.62 fails more often than not.
This mirrors my own experience and seems to bear out the maths. The destruction of a cinder blocks with a GPMG is spectacular, especially at close range. However, double skin brick walls with a different calibre are a tougher proposition, particularly if using engineering bricks and at longer range.


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This mirrors my own experience and seems to bear out the maths. The destruction of a cinder blocks with a GPMG is spectacular, especially at close range. However, double skin brick walls with a different calibre are a tougher proposition, particularly if using engineering bricks and at longer range.


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We found four or five shots on the same POI would reliably breech a brick cavity wall.

Of course finding an L1A1 capable of hitting the same brick @200yds...
 
This mirrors my own experience and seems to bear out the maths. The destruction of a cinder blocks with a GPMG is spectacular, especially at close range. However, double skin brick walls with a different calibre are a tougher proposition, particularly if using engineering bricks and at longer range.


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After following my Dad around as an Architect,I learnt a little about old buildings. A lot of Victorian buildings had Engineering bricks on a lot of window sills. Essentially on upper end buildings, also tended to be double skin but with no cavity.
Slums tended to be low quality single skin, the bricks were nearly always low quality. Even the quality of lime morter varies greatly. In the Victorian period, there were some really unscrupulous builders around the estates being built for workers.
A few years ago, Time Team did a dig on the Blitzed Eastend. Looking at the state of some of the foundations found was eye opening.
I know not a lot to do with That Rifle, but I hope it helpful.
 
I wasn't at 14 in 91 but I know lots of people who were there with SLR. 14 still had SLR when I rocked up to Celle in Oct 92. I had SA80 in NI in 91 but 14 didn't fully convert until about the time of the move to 'Traz in early 93.
Were you there on a two year? I was back late 93 i think it was, attached while we did the "Kingfisher" testing. Good fun; going on ex with Kev Fogg (RIP) was an education.

By the way, you may not have heard, but there was a sealed underground garage under the main block, full of dead SS and Panzers from 1945...
 
14 Sigs had it.
We sure did

The mix of L85A1 was due to the initial team sent out in October having some elements embedded with the USMC so supply of 5.56mm was seen as a potential issue. Those of us who were remaining with 7 Armd Bde retained ‘that’ rifle


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Handlebarbleep

Old-Salt
After following my Dad around as an Architect,I learnt a little about old buildings. A lot of Victorian buildings had Engineering bricks on a lot of window sills. Essentially on upper end buildings, also tended to be double skin but with no cavity.
Slums tended to be low quality single skin, the bricks were nearly always low quality. Even the quality of lime morter varies greatly. In the Victorian period, there were some really unscrupulous builders around the estates being built for workers.
A few years ago, Time Team did a dig on the Blitzed Eastend. Looking at the state of some of the foundations found was eye opening.
I know not a lot to do with That Rifle, but I hope it helpful.
I agree completely, there was very little regulation, mostly custom and practice. By the same token, you can come across a public toilet built like a palace, all engineering and glazed brick, with walls like Constantinople.

The Victorian and Edwardian periods were ones with considerable economic differences. Some buildings were clearly built to a price (I think I live in one of those!) whilst others to impress. I remember watching them demolish a viaduct, which even with modern machinery too considerably longer than planned. Ironically, two decades later they replaced the viaduct for the use with the new trams.

In my youth I used to work in a fireplace supplier, and we sold bricks, both new and salvaged. I learned that there were bricks and bricks, with very different weights and densities. It also became obvious why those Karate kids break breeze blocks.

There is nothing wrong with that demo, just thinking that it’s universally applicable to all masonry or buildings.

You also need to use your common sense. Would you rather lie in the open rather than take cover behind a brick wall? It might not save you from sustained point blank automatic concentrated fire. It would probably be effective against single round, mortar fragments, shrapnel etc. as well as view.

It would certainly do much better than a modern timber framed building, which we can see from the Waco footage can have the consistency of Swiss cheese.

Penetration though is largely a function of the round, which means THAT rifle is not such a significant factor.




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ugly

LE
Moderator
I was & yes I was there



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I hope that's not you with a fore sight protector fitted. Meant for drill not for stopping it snagging cam nets on ops
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
We sure did

The mix of L85A1 was due to the initial team sent out in October having some elements embedded with the USMC so supply of 5.56mm was seen as a potential issue. Those of us who were remaining with 7 Armd Bde retained ‘that’ rifle


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The UK liaison attached to the usmc were kitted out by uncle Sam completely to avoid blue on blue.
 
I hope that's not you with a fore sight protector fitted. Meant for drill not for stopping it snagging cam nets on ops
That certainly isn't me - the fella with the protector fitted did go on to serve with the SF though... go figure...
 
The UK liaison attached to the usmc were kitted out by uncle Sam completely to avoid blue on blue.
Ironically, by the time the shooting started, it was me embedded with the US Army... (307 (MI) Bn, 207 (MI) Bde, VII Corps) & guess what... kept the L1A1 and was given a crate of 7.62mm (we also had an L4A1 as well) to keep us going for a while, and then rely on stocks of shitty US 7.62mm for the M60 which was still in service, although I believe it was inferior to our stuff (I am sure better informed people on here will correct me on that). Luckily we didn't get to that point of course.
 

Chalkster69

Swinger
this footage is supposed to be from the end of the first gulf war. Who was using That rifle in 1991? Any suggestions what else it could be?
View attachment 412750



7 Sigregt had SLR's when we were in the Gulf. (excuse the mess, it was the maid's day off)


50014517_10215080482699372_4732764685554679808_o.jpg


I was posted to 28 Sigregt in 1993 & they still had them then - didn't get rid until '94 as I recall...

There were even a couple with wooden furniture in the Armoury, t'was a lucky lad that got one of those, they were very sought after....

This pic was from early 94 - note the high security scrim scarf to stop the DS from nicking it, Chunky just relied on the fact that no fecker would bother to nick an LMG... :D

1011431_10152023405742843_1196014418_n.jpg
 
7 Sigregt had SLR's when we were in the Gulf. (excuse the mess, it was the maid's day off)


View attachment 413085

I was posted to 28 Sigregt in 1993 & they still had them then - didn't get rid until '94 as I recall...

There were even a couple with wooden furniture in the Armoury, t'was a lucky lad that got one of those, they were very sought after....

This pic was from early 94 - note the high security scrim scarf to stop the DS from nicking it, Chunky just relied on the fact that no fecker would bother to nick an LMG... :D

View attachment 413086
Nice boogiebox!
 

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