That delightful Mister Shiner at it again!!!!

#1
The odious ambulance chaser Philip Shiner is pushing for an inquiry into allegations of abuse of Iraqi insurgents during PWRRs TELIC 4 tour (Beharry etc). See Link Below:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2193429,00.html

This is so blatantly JAM propaganda and complete bollocks. Anyone who has read Dusty Warriors would have read about the huge fire fight that ensued. That stupid cow from liberty has also chipped in with her poisonous tounge. ******* :x :x :x :x :x :x :x
 
#2
And this bit grips my shi*!

"Mr Shiner is acting for relatives of a number of Iraqis who died as well as the detainee, Mr Abbas. He was granted legal aid this week to pursue the case which will be presented by two leading human rights QCs, Rabinder Singh and Michael Fordham. They want the high court to order an inquiry into the allegations as required, they say, by the Human Rights Act."

Right my bold, so Legal Aid has been granted for non-citizens of the UK, how the hell does that work? My taxes to pay for non-residents to sue the MOD for doing their jobs after they were attacked by terrorists WTF!!!

My bold part 2, the Human Rights Act, now, correct me if I am wrong but I thought this was the European Human Rights Act, therefore, how can it cover citizens of the Middle East that have no residence in the UK?

Surely the only thing they can possibly sue under is the Geneva Convention, if the "soldiers" are covered as they were in fact terrorists! This is BS in the highest order and whoever granted this bunch of hippie do-gooders Legal Aid, wants shooting themseleves. And we wonder why soldiers are leaving the Forces, they can't even do theirs jobs without fear of prosecution at a later date!

:x :x :x :x :x :x
 
#3
This is all about milking the tit. You can rest assured that without legal aid, these learned gentlemen would not be offering their services. There was a ruling earlier which stated the applicability of HRA in Iraq. Easy, easy money. Fellas, it is difficult working out who the enemy is any more, I am not surprised people are leaving in their droves.

New Labour, old danger......
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#4
Well put Nigelib. Just a way to a fast buck, care of the taxpayer.
 
#5
paleblue_1 said:
My bold part 2, the Human Rights Act, now, correct me if I am wrong but I thought this was the European Human Rights Act, therefore, how can it cover citizens of the Middle East that have no residence in the UK?
Because of Colin Powell's famous comment, "You break it, you own it". As I understand the legal bit, once we knocked over Saddam's government (and until a new Iraqi government was established), we effectively became their government. If we're in charge, our rules can be argued to apply....
 
#6
considering it was a battle including the use of bayonets and grenades you'd expect bodies to be pretty well mallated :(
 
#7
The country voted this gang of sh*tes into power THREE times FFS!

It is not going to get any better either with 'Bottler' Brown at the helm and 'Captain' Darling counting the paper-clips.
 
#8
This is merely giving aid and succour to our enemies.

Shiner and his odious ilk should be facing a charge of treason not receiving taxpayers hard earned cash.

Human rights lawyers? The mere scum of the Earth.
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#9
short-fuse said:
The odious ambulance chaser Philip Shiner is pushing for an inquiry into allegations of abuse of Iraqi insurgents during PWRRs TELIC 4 tour (Beharry etc). See Link Below:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2193429,00.html

This is so blatantly JAM propaganda and complete balls. Anyone who has read Dusty Warriors would have read about the huge fire fight that ensued. That stupid cow from liberty has also chipped in with her poisonous tounge. ******* :x :x :x :x :x :x :x
She's got a point though SF. If soldiers can beat a man in custody to death and get away with it, what are organisations like 'Liberty' supposed to think when other allegations are made against us? We may or may not agree with Chakrabarti's stance, but the QLR incident did the British Army and indeed the nation, no favours whatsoever and as long as that incident is left unresolved, human rights organisations will use it as a fine example with which to beat the sh*t out of us. The QLR incident has cost us dearly and even if as we believe, the current allegations are just tosh, given our inability to resolve the Baha Moussa case, we will always be open to suspicion of cover up. A substantial amount of people on this site, who will no doubt be taking a strong stance on this current issue, were the very same people who were more interested in Mr Mendoca's loss of career than the unlawful loss of Moussa's life. Hardly surprising that Chakrabarti has a go at us, in particularly when new allegations such as the current ones are made.
 
#10
I think we had initially the provision for an opt out of the EHRA for the Military which was not adopted by HMG.

Agree about Shiner though nice to be a "crusading" (interesting choice of words in the circumstances) lawyer when you are getting sufficiently paid for it. Not bad too if impoverished Iraqi witnesses are getting expenses etc to come over to UK to give evidence.

Things stink with the Mousa case and Biscuits is right until (if) that is resolved it will aways be held up against us.

Cleraly there are doubts from the medics who examined these bodies as given in the reoprt of the senior doctor in Amara. As Brighton Hippy points out this was hardly fisticuffs but full on fighting in a brutal manner, the bodies are hardly going to be pristine.

Mind you because Shiner has made the application does not mean it will succeed but I for one will be gutted if he does.
 
#11
paleblue_1 said:
And this bit grips my shi*!

"Mr Shiner is acting for relatives of a number of Iraqis who died as well as the detainee, Mr Abbas. He was granted legal aid this week to pursue the case which will be presented by two leading human rights QCs, Rabinder Singh and Michael Fordham. They want the high court to order an inquiry into the allegations as required, they say, by the Human Rights Act."

Right my bold, so Legal Aid has been granted for non-citizens of the UK, how the hell does that work? My taxes to pay for non-residents to sue the MOD for doing their jobs after they were attacked by terrorists WTF!!!

My bold part 2, the Human Rights Act, now, correct me if I am wrong but I thought this was the European Human Rights Act, therefore, how can it cover citizens of the Middle East that have no residence in the UK?

Surely the only thing they can possibly sue under is the Geneva Convention, if the "soldiers" are covered as they were in fact terrorists! This is BS in the highest order and whoever granted this bunch of hippie do-gooders Legal Aid, wants shooting themseleves. And we wonder why soldiers are leaving the Forces, they can't even do theirs jobs without fear of prosecution at a later date!

:x :x :x :x :x :x
They would have been granted legal aid because justice has to be seen to be done - that's one of the most basic and ancient principles of law. It is all the more necessary in this case because justice must be seen to be done not just here in Britain but, perhaps even more vitally, in Iraq and around the world as well. Being limp-wristed has nothing to do with it; being hard-headed and realistic has.
 
#12
Justice can't be seen to be done in this case bodies handed over no independent autopsy = nice little earner for Mr shiner :x
 
#13
Liberty are a good thing in standing up to governments in general, and this authoritarian government in particular. Its a shame the government takes little notice.

That said, they are onto a loser with DANNY BOY.
 
#15
Good points are made as the army screwed up always going to be made to look bad .Still think mr shiner should be on a rendition flight :twisted:
 
#16
ABrighter2006 said:
Tend to agree with Bicuit's thinking that until the QLR "issue" is seen to be resolved, we are an easy target.
Yup. I took part in a recent radio discussion about the return of 1 R ANGLIAN from Afghanistan, and their parades next month. There were people phoning in to claim that the whole Army is tarnished by alleged abuses in Iraq.
 
#17
Mr Shiner sets out his stall in this article in the Guardian today (some on-line commentators have pointed out that the court itself might have been the proper place to air this in the first instance, but that's our Phil).

As became apparent from his Kenyan cases, at the merest whiff of a pudding, Phil piles on the egg by the truckload. I am not sure this is in the interests of his client, or whether he is more interested in furthering the profile and thus business of Public Interest Lawyers, but I have my own views.

We now have to confront the Amara incident in May 2004, as reported in yesterday's Guardian. It appears that 22 Iraqis were taken into detention alive, only to be returned in body bags 20 hours later.

But worse still, the evidence suggests a catalogue of abuse: first, that soldiers had earlier executed Iraqis in front of a number of witnesses; second, some of them were executed by shooting at close range or strangulation; third, many of the bodies show clear evidence of torture; fourth, bodies had been mutilated with eyes gouged out, and multiple stab wounds and body parts severed (including a penis); and fifth, trained Iraqi medical operatives attest that many of the wounds were fresh and that deaths had occurred just before the bodies were returned
It is a terrible shame that, by letting ourselves down in other areas, we have given this man a platform, and that the heroic actions of servicemen in this significant incident, are dragged through the mud like this. I just hope that the mud sticks where it should - on Phil.
 
#18
I have yet to hear of Mr Shiner, or any of his ilk, try to find justice for the 6 RMPs that were brutely slain by an angry mob.

Nor the two American civvie contractors that were beaten to death, mutilated and then strung up on a bridge in Iraq by another angry mob, in 2004 I believe.

While its important that justice must be seen to be done, surly he could also appeal to try the killers of Mr Ken Bigley in their absance, as I believe can be done.

Is it that these poeple's lives are worth less to Public Intrest Lawyers, or just that they won't get legal aid to persue the case?
 

the_boy_syrup

LE
Book Reviewer
#20
From the Guardian
We now have to confront the Amara incident in May 2004, as reported in yesterday's Guardian.
It appears that 22 Iraqis were taken into detention alive, only to be returned in body bags 20 hours later.

But worse still, the evidence suggests a catalogue of abuse:
first, that soldiers had earlier executed Iraqis in front of a number of witnesses;
second, some of them were executed by shooting at close range or strangulation;
third, many of the bodies show clear evidence of torture;
fourth, bodies had been mutilated with eyes gouged out, and multiple stab wounds and body parts severed (including a penis); and fifth, trained Iraqi medical operatives attest that many of the wounds were fresh and that deaths had occurred just before the bodies were returned.
A survivor's statement gives shocking evidence of hearing the screams of Iraqis being tortured, and hearing one of my client's relatives executed by shooting.

After Danny Boy the bodies were loaded on the vehicles to be taken back to Al Ammarah for identifying with respect to the RMP case as it was belived that the same guys were involved in that
If anyone walked into Al Amarah they walked back out.
I know the guys who handled the bodies all were supervised by the padre amongst others
The prisoner handling IIRC would have beeen done under the supervision of the RSM and the ADJ as I had to go an get them one morning about 0200 so they could carry this out
I'm 100% certain no one was executed
Yes bodies had eyes missing etc due to gun shot wounds (as stated in Dusty Warriers)
PWRR put in a bayonet charge at Danny boy plus IIRC Warrier and Challenger main armorment was reported to have been fired so again stab wound close range gunshots and other injuries may have been present
IIRC one of the Iraqi's who was present when the bodies were handed back (the chief of police) was executed for agreeing with the British statements on the injuries

These statements are from Iraqi's who were at Danny Boy and were reletives of people who were there including at least one policeman who was captured
Almost all would have come from Makal Kabhir which through out Telic 4 was a virtual no go area due to the Anti British Sentiments there


Had the RHF and the HCR been over run by these Iraqi's during the initial contact would this lawyer and his freinds be screaming for justice for those lads
As it was they fought a good fight and eventually turned the battle in to a great victory
This is a load of b0llocks no more
They fought us they lost and now someone is seeking to make money out of it
No Iraqi who was there that day was just passing by they were there to kill British soldiers nothing else

Let this lawyer go back to Iraq and revoke his passport and leave him there for commiting and act of traeson against Crown forces

I do agree with Biscuits though the QLR incedents have made these thing more likely to be investigated and you can bet this scum will go through every contact in the hope of making a bit of cash from them :x :x
 

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