Terry Lloyd verdict-Media hysteria?

#1
The verdict at Oxford today,seems to be a spigot on which the media wish to spear the US forceds.It's admitted that Lloyd was not embedded,during the Iraq invasion,yet during the fog of war,the media do not think that he should take his lumps and bumps,with everyone else.The media are now showing themselves to be only interested in one of their own,with this sh1tstorm of interest,in their own.His daughter talking about 'murder' may be her own view,but will find little legitimacy in the military community,at large.
 
#2
A hell of a lot of reporters have been killed in Iraq, more than any previous war I think I heard?

Wasnt this all as a result of an inquest of some sort?

You're right though, trigger-happy Spams - suppose we ought to be used to it by now.
 
#3
muhandis89 said:
His daughter talking about 'murder' may be her own view,but will find little legitimacy in the military community,at large.
Given the testimony of Soldier B, as reported by the BBC, how were the US troops supposed to distinguish between armed Iraqis and journalists? I've read what I've been able to find about the incident and whilst my sympathy is with the families of those who died in this incident, I'm not convinced that the journalists' vehicles shouldn't have been engaged as possible enemy vehicles.

Soldier B told Oxfordshire Assistant Deputy Coroner Andrew Walker that he saw three vehicles - one thought to be carrying Mr Lloyd and cameraman Daniel Demoustier, the second an Iraqi pick-up truck with a machine gun on the back, and a third with Mr Nerac and Mr Osman inside.

He witnessed an exchange of fire between the US tank and the Iraqi vehicle for about 30 seconds before the truck burst into flames.

He told the coroner: "I can't say for sure who engaged first.

"My recollection is that the tank engaged the vehicles."

Mr Lloyd's vehicle "also ignited and went off to the side of the road to its right and came to rest on the side of a field, burning".

Soldier B did not see anyone leave Mr Lloyd's vehicle, but saw the driver and passenger in the third vehicle run for cover.

"The tank continued to fire at the position where the people had taken cover.

"I couldn't see them but I could see it firing in that direction for a maximum of a minute.

"Once there was no further movement in the area and the threat had been taken out, the firing stopped."

When the firing stopped, Soldier B said he saw a green minibus stop, and although it was difficult to see with black smoke all around, it looked as if people were helped into the minibus.

He said there were no helicopters circling.

Reports following the incident suggested Mr Lloyd had been shot by a helicopter gunship as he was taken for medical help.
Saying that, this seems somewhat of concern:

Major Kay Roberts, of the Royal Military Police, told the inquest 15 minutes of footage appeared to be missing from a film of the incident which was supplied by the US military.

Mr McLaughlin said the US authorities had not only failed to co-operate with the inquest but had actually obstructed it.
My overall feeling on this is matter is that despite all sorts of people saying that Terry Lloyd wasn't a risk taker, anyone who chooses to be in a war-zone, especially as a "unilateral" journalist, is by definition a risk taker and they're foolish if they don't consider the potential outcomes and brief their families accordingly.
 
#6
The international news services are giving this topic far more coverage than the various stories in Iraq and Afghanistan together.
 
#7
Anyone who deliberately places themself between two opposing military forces bent on each others destruction pretty much get what they deserve. The man was a fool who paid with his life for his desire to get a "scoop" which would, at best, be forgotten by TV viewers within five minutes of it being aired.
 
#8
spack_bandit said:
The man was a fool who paid with his life for his desire to get a "scoop" which would, at best, be forgotten by TV viewers within five minutes of it being aired.
Sad......but true...
 
#9
DozyBint said:
[
Saying that, this seems somewhat of concern:

Major Kay Roberts, of the Royal Military Police, told the inquest 15 minutes of footage appeared to be missing from a film of the incident which was supplied by the US military.

Mr McLaughlin said the US authorities had not only failed to co-operate with the inquest but had actually obstructed it.
My overall feeling on this is matter is that despite all sorts of people saying that Terry Lloyd wasn't a risk taker, anyone who chooses to be in a war-zone, especially as a "unilateral" journalist, is by definition a risk taker and they're foolish if they don't consider the potential outcomes and brief their families accordingly.
In the ITN Grief-w@nk-fest over this person they did actually interview the embedded cameraman who filmed the aftermath (there's no footage of the incident itself) and asked him if it was true that there was some missing. He said that there wasn't and could provide all of it if asked. Hey he's a journo and can be trusted okay. 8O

As a matter of interest the other claim to fame of Lloyd (apart from being Tosh from the Bill's brother) is that he once, over 10 years ago, tracked down that fine example of Gallic charm Eric Cantona on holiday with his family. The ITN paparazzi cretin goes up to Cantona and trys to interview him and the froggy deals with it in his own special way by smacking him in the gob. Thought he wasn't too bad after that.

One other thing to point out is that the coroner said that he was one of those special people whos courage will be missed by everyone he left behind. Not by me he won't.
 
#10
Whoa a cotton picking second! This guy was one of their own - OK he pushed his luck a bit and may appear a bit of a maverick. But let's not forget if this guy had been one of our own, on a maverick escapade (and doing what he thought was right at the time) and was subsequently gunned down by 'allies' in less than clear circumstances - this forum would be positively ablaze! We would probably be screaming for someone's dangly bits on a plate and be offering up LCpl Terry Lloyd for some sort of gong.

Journalists are part of life, they are also, like it or not, an integral part of our business. OK, so he was out on his own and maybe taking too many risks but this, to me, looks less than clear cut and his colleaugues are only capitalising on every means at their disposal to make a point. In this case, the very powerful broadcast media. Wouldn't you, if you could?

Still don't trust 'em though.
 
#11
Storeman Norman said:
[Whoa a cotton picking second! This guy was one of their own - OK he pushed his luck a bit and may appear a bit of a maverick. But let's not forget if this guy had been one of our own, on a maverick escapade (and doing what he thought was right at the time) and was subsequently gunned down by 'allies' in less than clear circumstances - this forum would be positively ablaze! We would probably be screaming for someone's dangly bits on a plate and be offering up LCpl Terry Lloyd for some sort of gong
On the other hand "hero" Terry Lloyd is killed in the act of just trying to get a story by Americans. Family are calling it MURDER and demand an inquiry. This gets 10 mins of news time on ITN mind you. L/Cpl lloyd gets killed by yanks shot up by A10's doing his job and they press would barely give it 10 seconds let alone be interested in what the family think.

Slight imbalance in my mind.
 
#12
StumpyHussar said:
On the other hand "hero" Terry Lloyd is killed in the act of just trying to get a story by Americans. Family are calling it MURDER and demand an inquiry. This gets 10 mins of news time on ITN mind you. L/Cpl lloyd gets killed by yanks shot up by A10's doing his job and they press would barely give it 10 seconds let alone be interested in what the family think.
Storeman Norman said:
his colleagues are only capitalising on every means at their disposal to make a point. In this case, the very powerful broadcast media. Wouldn't you, if you could?
 

engr172

War Hero
Book Reviewer
#13
On the other hand "hero" Terry Lloyd is killed in the act of just trying to get a story by Americans. Family are calling it MURDER and demand an inquiry. This gets 10 mins of news time on ITN mind you. L/Cpl lloyd gets killed by yanks shot up by A10's doing his job and they press would barely give it 10 seconds let alone be interested in what the family think.

How very true. He knew what he was doing, and has, unfortunately, got what was going to happen. The sceptics are maniacs, and surely that should have made him a bit more less inclined to get in the middle of a contact between them and the Iragis?
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#14
They should step back and look at it for what it was. ITN deliberately puts an educated man into a war zone where he was not invited, has no protection and he gets killed.

ITN should be sacking their Health & Safety man.

Trained and armed to the teeth soldiers deliberately avoid getting caught up in situations like this. It is a sad loss of a life, but FFS, he knew the risks and was prepared to take them. It would be interesting to see how an Insurance Company would view this.
 
#15
I was shocked when I heard his daughter saying he'd been murdered. Ok she's upset but for gods sake get a grip. These things happen from time to time, he chose to put himself in that situation and the worst case scenario occurred. He was presumably an intelligent man, he knew the risks.
 
#16
Storeman Norman said:
StumpyHussar said:
On the other hand "hero" Terry Lloyd is killed in the act of just trying to get a story by Americans. Family are calling it MURDER and demand an inquiry. This gets 10 mins of news time on ITN mind you. L/Cpl lloyd gets killed by yanks shot up by A10's doing his job and they press would barely give it 10 seconds let alone be interested in what the family think.
Storeman Norman said:
his colleagues are only capitalising on every means at their disposal to make a point. In this case, the very powerful broadcast media. Wouldn't you, if you could?
See where you're coming from Norman and I do get your point. Still think these people should not get anymore publicity than the people who're fighting the war. I'm an old knacker and my son is over in Iraq in the army but if push came to shove and he was (God forbid) hurt or killed I would not make an issue of it. He's doing his job and not looking for glory or fame.

So even if I had the influence to make a show of it the answer is still no I would'nt even if I could.
 
#17
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't several US soldiers involved in the incident actually provide testimony as to what happened but the Coronor ignored this because they couldn't testify in person?
 
#18
He knew what he was doing, he knew the risk. He was also highly paid for being a war correspondent.

Dear Mrs Lloyd & daughter, I'm sorry to hear that Terry lost his life because he got taken out by some trigger happy septics but, next time you get some prime time TV and press coverage, spare some thought for, and please include, some mention of the British Soldiers there too. Kind regards, and my heartfelt sympathy, The_Dragoon.
 
#19
jonwilly said:
Jurno's do for big money what troops do for little, stick their necks out.
john
Sometimes you have a bad day.
100% Bang on. That just about sums it all up. I have,nt heard of a big fuss like this for our guys lost in a blue on blue. That just gets written off as a "fog of war" incident. Its a lot fcuking diffrent when one of our illustrious,galant reporters buys one . TBH what did he expect wandering around a battlefield independantly ??? My verdict... Death by misadventure.

LT.
 
#20
AndyPipkin said:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't several US soldiers involved in the incident actually provide testimony as to what happened but the Coronor ignored this because they couldn't testify in person?
Hmm don't know but they certainly refused to send anyone to it at all. They do this all the time so it's no surprise really they do look after their blokes and don't like them being examined by foreign courts or inquiries. Shudder to think what would happen if it was the other way round, got a feeling our boys would be gift wrapped with a rose sticking out of their arrse :(
 
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