Terror Attacks in Europe

Thats right. It is very relevant. I dont see christian migrants detonating themselves in the name of jesus and i dont see them excluding themselves from our society
i'll add to that that we also dont see many Jews, Hindus, Sikhs or Satanists blowing themselves up in crowded places, driving trucks into pedestrians, cutting heads off soldiers or walking around stabbing random natives.

To continue to pretend that we must treat everyone equally in this regard is why we are where we are with it.

By explicitly targeting Islam with legislation, we can deal with the problem, or at least begin to deal with it and at the same time it is far less likely that the government will be able to use (mis-use) that legislation for purposes other than it was intended for.
 
1) Are there hundreds of thousands of third world christians / no faith people trying to get in in a similar fashion?
2) If so are they economic migrants, refugees or something else?
(...)
There are millions of third world Christians trying to get into the first world illegally, just ask the Americans about it. Lots of them claim to be refugees but realistically are economic migrants. The Americans blame them for all sorts of serious crimes, including murder, drug dealing, and others. Opposite sides of the American political divide have differing views as to how serious the problem is.

Where they come from has to do with what part of the third world your bit of the first world happens to abut with. Even the better off parts of the third world have problems with illegal migrants from the worse off parts of the third world. This isn't a problem that exists only in Europe.
 
There are millions of third world Christians trying to get into the first world illegally, just ask the Americans about it. Lots of them claim to be refugees but realistically are economic migrants. The Americans blame them for all sorts of serious crimes, including murder, drug dealing, and others. Opposite sides of the American political divide have differing views as to how serious the problem is.

Where they come from has to do with what part of the third world your bit of the first world happens to abut with. Even the better off parts of the third world have problems with illegal migrants from the worse off parts of the third world. This isn't a problem that exists only in Europe.
All valid points, but the thread concerns Europe.
 
i'll add to that that we also dont see many Jews, Hindus, Sikhs or Satanists blowing themselves up in crowded places, driving trucks into pedestrians, cutting heads off soldiers or walking around stabbing random natives.
(...)
Loads of Hindu terrorists have done exactly that. They are widely credited with having invented the suicide bomb vest, and also made use of suicide truck bombs and suicide speedboat bombs.

They were credited with having killed a third of all victims of terrorism in the world at the time of writing the following news article about them.

 
All valid points, but the thread concerns Europe.
Yes, the thread is about Europe. The point is though that the actual problem is that part of Europe adjoins part of the third world. Europe are going to have a problem with that regardless of the religion of that adjoining part. If Central America and the Middle East were to magically switch places, then Europe would be complaining about Mexicans and Guatemalans and the Americans would be complaining about Muslims.

If all the Muslims of the Middle East and Pakistan were to wake up tomorrow and decide that they've "found Jesus" and became evangelical Christians, American style, you'd still not be happy with them coming over your border. It's geography and economics.
 
Yes, the thread is about Europe. The point is though that the actual problem is that part of Europe adjoins part of the third world. Europe are going to have a problem with that regardless of the religion of that adjoining part. If Central America and the Middle East were to magically switch places, then Europe would be complaining about Mexicans and Guatemalans and the Americans would be complaining about Muslims.

If all the Muslims of the Middle East and Pakistan were to wake up tomorrow and decide that they've "found Jesus" and became evangelical Christians, American style, you'd still not be happy with them coming over your border. It's geography and economics.
Too many if's.
Why didn't you include radicalisation as a driving factor in all your variables ?
 
There are millions of third world Christians trying to get into the first world illegally, just ask the Americans about it. Lots of them claim to be refugees but realistically are economic migrants. The Americans blame them for all sorts of serious crimes, including murder, drug dealing, and others. Opposite sides of the American political divide have differing views as to how serious the problem is.

Where they come from has to do with what part of the third world your bit of the first world happens to abut with. Even the better off parts of the third world have problems with illegal migrants from the worse off parts of the third world. This isn't a problem that exists only in Europe.
I dont disagree with any of that except to say that I am talking about the UK and not the US.
 
Loads of Hindu terrorists have done exactly that. They are widely credited with having invented the suicide bomb vest, and also made use of suicide truck bombs and suicide speedboat bombs.

They were credited with having killed a third of all victims of terrorism in the world at the time of writing the following news article about them.

Not here they haven't. Look, I dont want to start a series of logical fallacies where we exchange straw men and fall out but the thrust of your argument appear to be that Islam in the UK is not a problem? Or at least it is no more a problem than any other group?

Is that a fair assessment of your position?

It's hard to discuss your points if I can't tell what your underlying position in, clearly you disagree with mine and I find it difficult to understand why in the face of the overwhelming evidence of 30 years of mass immigration from Islamic, third word countries. It is no longer just an experiment in us all getting along and sharing the wealth, enjoying the cultural melting pot of diversity being our greatest strength and all that shite.

We have been doing this for long enough now to start drawing conclusions and the negative impact if this mass migration of muslims is very well known. So much so that there is a concerted effort from the Legacy media and Government to cover it up, They even made up new laws to try to stop us "hating" them.

Mass rape, paedophilia, terrorism, refusal to integrate, outright declaration of the intention to "out breed" us within 2 generations and the public blindly going along with it.

I'm struggling, really, to find any positive's to go along with this story.
 
Too many if's.
Why didn't you include radicalisation as a driving factor in all your variables ?
Not here they haven't. Look, I dont want to start a series of logical fallacies where we exchange straw men and fall out but the thrust of your argument appear to be that Islam in the UK is not a problem? Or at least it is no more a problem than any other group?

Is that a fair assessment of your position?

It's hard to discuss your points if I can't tell what your underlying position in, clearly you disagree with mine and I find it difficult to understand why in the face of the overwhelming evidence of 30 years of mass immigration from Islamic, third word countries. It is no longer just an experiment in us all getting along and sharing the wealth, enjoying the cultural melting pot of diversity being our greatest strength and all that shite.

We have been doing this for long enough now to start drawing conclusions and the negative impact if this mass migration of muslims is very well known. So much so that there is a concerted effort from the Legacy media and Government to cover it up, They even made up new laws to try to stop us "hating" them.

Mass rape, paedophilia, terrorism, refusal to integrate, outright declaration of the intention to "out breed" us within 2 generations and the public blindly going along with it.

I'm struggling, really, to find any positive's to go along with this story.
I've quoted both posts above, as they are both dealing with questions that need similar answers.

First we have to recognise that there are two separate problems that may need two separate solutions. One problem is illegal mass economic migration from the third world to the first. Whether the migrants are Muslim as Europe are facing, or Christian as the US are facing, it's a problem that I think the majority of reasonable people would agree needs addressing.

When you phrase the situation as "all Muslims are terrorists" however, you immediately lose the argument in the minds of most people as they know that this isn't true. You also set yourself up for failure if and when you get a mass illegal migration of non-Muslims as none of your arguments would apply to them. I mean, are you really saying that you would have no objections to seeing 10 million Nigerian Christians paddling across the English Channel into the UK? Because that's what the focus on "Muslims" logically leads to.

To a large extent the problem lies with international treaties which were drawn up to deal with small numbers of political refugees, particularly those from communist regimes we were opposing during the Cold War, being exploited by very large numbers of economic migrants in the very different environment we find ourselves in today. You're not going to solve this in isolation, which means you're not going to solve this if you are focused on "the Muslim problem" while the Americans are focused on "the Mexican problem". If Europe, the US, and enough other major powers around the world can come to an agreement on what the problem really is then they can change the international consensus and craft changes to the relevant international treaties to deal with it. There won't be a perfect solution, but there can be one which limits the scale of the problem.

The other problem is one of terrorism, and that's really a two part question. The simple one is that of normal, legal immigration, which becomes a much simpler issue once you have dealt with the large scale illegal sort described above.

Pick your immigrants carefully, vet their backgrounds, and set criteria which select ones from social classes who are less likely to prove a problem. That already fits in well with the stated objective the UK has for its new immigration policy which focuses on the economic contribution which immigrants can provide to the UK. While some Muslim terrorists in Europe do come from well educated middle class backgrounds, in general the risk is much less with them. Many of the problems in the UK come from people who in their in their home country were from specific poorly educated and lower income social classes and tribal groups, but were brought into the UK to fill roles as cheap labour in the textile and other declining industries.

The other part of the terrorism problem comes from people who became radicalised in the UK. I can speak more knowledgeably on the situation in Canada rather than the UK, but the problem we see here is primarily to do with Christians who converted to Islam. I don't know how you feel about that, but in my mind anyone who wakes up one morning and decides that the answer to his problems is to become a Muslim definitely has some "mental health issues". There's not much you can do about these people except to monitor them and take firm police action when the situation calls for it. There was an entire thread on ARRSE dedicated to one such situation which happened not that far from me.

To sum up, you seem to think that you have a problem. Well I'm sorry to tell you that you actually have three problems that are going to need at least three different solutions. You're not going to solve them though unless you recognise this. The people who just run around screaming "we wouldn't have any problems if we would just get rid of all the Muslims" are to a great extent the reason why the real problems don't get addressed.
 
I'm struggling, really, to find any positive's to go along with this story.
Except perhaps most of us are old enough not to have to worry about the end game for ourselves, it's really our children that will have to live with wherever multiculturalism takes us and particularly squaring religious fundamentalism with a liberal society
 
i'll add to that that we also dont see many Jews, Hindus, Sikhs or Satanists blowing themselves up in crowded places, driving trucks into pedestrians, cutting heads off soldiers or walking around stabbing random natives.

To continue to pretend that we must treat everyone equally in this regard is why we are where we are with it.

By explicitly targeting Islam with legislation, we can deal with the problem, or at least begin to deal with it and at the same time it is far less likely that the government will be able to use (mis-use) that legislation for purposes other than it was intended for.
That's one of the most realistic, down to earth, common-sense posts I've ever read on here. Stand-by for the usual suspects to wrongly pull the Race-Card on you HTB.
 
Loads of Hindu terrorists have done exactly that. They are widely credited with having invented the suicide bomb vest, and also made use of suicide truck bombs and suicide speedboat bombs.

They were credited with having killed a third of all victims of terrorism in the world at the time of writing the following news article about them.

In Europe? I must have missed all those Hindu attacks in our societies.
 
Except perhaps most of us are old enough not to have to worry about the end game for ourselves, it's really our children that will have to live with wherever multiculturalism takes us and particularly squaring religious fundamentalism with a liberal society
Religious fundamentalism will eat any liberal society for breakfast, especially one actually invited to the table.

Islam Vs China in the final fight for World Domination.

Been saying this for years - I reckon in around 150 years give or take a few.

The only way I can see it not happening, the Islam bit anyway - China will still be one of the protagonists regardless - is if strict disciples of the RoP's good book do something so heinous that even the apologists can't spin it away and there's a Western World wide clampdown on Islam.

I'm not sure what they'd have to do though, because if beheading a British soldier on the streets of the nation's capital didn't change a single thing, not a single thing (or even being told to be sensitive of other muslim's feelings as they'll be scared of a backlash...), then there's only one way forward.
 
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Religious fundamentalism will eat any liberal society for breakfast, especially one actually invited to the table.

Islam Vs China in the final fight for World Domination.

Been saying this for years - I reckon in around 150 years give or take a few.

The only way I can see it not happening, the Islam bit anyway - China will still be one of the protagonists regardless - is if strict disciples of the RoP's good book do something so heinous that even the apologists can't spin it away and there's a Western World wide clampdown on Islam.

I'm not sure what they'd have to do though, because if beheading a British soldier on the streets of the nation's capital didn't change a single thing, not a single thing (or even being told to be sensitive of other muslim's feelings as they'll be scared of a backlash...), then there's only one way forward.
"Islam" as a word dominating force has little chance of coming to reality in my opinion. The countries which would encompass this don't have the economic or technological ability, or the political unity to be much threat to anyone other than themselves for the foreseeable future. The problems they present to the world are largely problems created by their internal failures.
 
"Islam" as a word dominating force has little chance of coming to reality in my opinion. The countries which would encompass this don't have the economic or technological ability, or the political unity to be much threat to anyone other than themselves for the foreseeable future. The problems they present to the world are largely problems created by their internal failures.
You'll need a tinfoil hat to follow my line because I fully believe that unless there is actual action to stop it, Europe will end up as an Islam majority with Sharia and all the trimmings - Not entirely sure about the Americas, far stronger Christian/Catholic faith which might put up a fight but that all depends on if the US has sank under liberal governments - Canada will have followed Europe early doors.

I'm talking a long time though, many generations, but on trend, it's inevitable.

Scoff all you like by the biggest problem is that it's a numbers game and there's no one 'in-house' that will stand up and put a stop to it.
 
The depressing thing is that secularist whithin the middle east mostly have to emigrate to America or Europe to have a chance of their voices being heard without certain death, that alone doesn't give optimism

They remain optimistic, but the likes of this chap are fighting a losing battle of ideas
 
It appears when you choose to live in a country of 'non-believers' - the best way to proceed is kill the non-believers:


It's a common trend we have seen in attacks all across Europe carried out in the name of this religion.

Obviously a dedicated Muslim, religious documents were found in the attacker's home and he was arrested whist he stopped to pray to Allah after killing the non-believers. Another associate of his was also arrested - I reckon they subscribed to the same religion, I may be wrong, but I highly doubt it.
A better and more in-depth article can be found here (barring the odd translation). I'm not yet convinced he didn't have some sort of mental illness given these excerpts:



Seeing as it's the 'religion' doing this according to you, I guess we should start being worried about Buddhists next:

Reuters: How Myanmar forces burned, looted and killed in a remote village

ABC News: Buddhist extremism: Meet the violent followers of a religion widely known for its pacifism

United States Holocaust Museum: Atrocities against Burma's Rohingya Population

Now any person who's rational and objective isn't going to deny there's an extremist problem within Islam. The likes of Maajid Nawaz have expertly laid all this out. But seeing as it's a 1,400 year-old religion and barring the Crusades and other skirmishes, it hasn't had an issue with its followers blowing themselves up or going around knifing people shouting Allahu Akbar until recent history.
 
Now any person who's rational and objective isn't going to deny there's an extremist problem within Islam. The likes of Maajid Nawaz have expertly laid all this out. But seeing as it's a 1,400 year-old religion and barring the Crusades and other skirmishes, it hasn't had an issue with its followers blowing themselves up or going around knifing people shouting Allahu Akbar until recent history.
Not really had the numbers which they have now in western countries until recent history.
 
You'll need a tinfoil hat to follow my line because I fully believe that unless there is actual action to stop it, Europe will end up as an Islam majority with Sharia and all the trimmings - Not entirely sure about the Americas, far stronger Christian/Catholic faith which might put up a fight but that all depends on if the US has sank under liberal governments - Canada will have followed Europe early doors.

I'm talking a long time though, many generations, but on trend, it's inevitable.

Scoff all you like by the biggest problem is that it's a numbers game and there's no one 'in-house' that will stand up and put a stop to it.
And those like BravoBravo et al who wrongly pull the Race-Card at every opportunity as soon as any of us challenge Islam in any form, are instrumental in ensuring it's proliferation and progress to domination.

We need to be standing up to Islam, not rolling over for it.
 

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