Territorial Army soldiers to be ordered to fight

Sorry, no real issues MSR. But please explain to me why you feel so strongly that the TA should have a role of the 'reserve of first choice' but not have a framework to maximise it's impact in that role?
 
sanchauk said:
Sorry, no real issues MSR. But please explain to me why you feel so strongly that the TA should have a role of the 'reserve of first choice' but not have a framework to maximise it's impact in that role?
I'm not joining in the discussion, but feel obliged to object to the term "reserve of first choice." I don't know who coined it, but they must have been in Utopia at the time.

The TA is the first, last and only choice - unless the ACF formally adopts the title HJ.

Consequently, regardless of any framework that someone designates to the TA, the TA will still have to be prepared to re-role at a moments notice to adapt to any new situation, be it offensive, defensive, civil, home, overseas, etc. To quote Colour Sergeant Bourne in Zulu: "Because we're here, lad. Nobody else. Just us."
 
putteesinmyhands said:
sanchauk said:
Sorry, no real issues MSR. But please explain to me why you feel so strongly that the TA should have a role of the 'reserve of first choice' but not have a framework to maximise it's impact in that role?
I'm not joining in the discussion, but feel obliged to object to the term "reserve of first choice." I don't know who coined it, but they must have been in Utopia at the time.
The TA is the first, last and only choice - unless the ACF formally adopts the title HJ.

Consequently, regardless of any framework that someone designates to the TA, the TA will still have to be prepared to re-role at a moments notice to adapt to any new situation, be it offensive, defensive, civil, home, overseas, etc. To quote Colour Sergeant Bourne in Zulu: "Because we're here, lad. Nobody else. Just us."
Couldn't agree more. I quoted it from from the TA bunf on MOD website...that'll be the utopia bit explained! :) It's also quite telling that it was coined by the MOD because whilst in strategic terms the TA always was the reserve, in terms of Regular Army operations the reserve of choice would always be another regular unit. It is of course that that has changed.
 
RP578 said:
The Reserve of First Choice used to be the Regular Reserve. This changed with RFA96.
Aha! Another Utopian concept. People go on about the TA being bounty-hunters, but the Regular Reserve were the masters. (I'll admit that that's a bit of a generalisation, but it was my perception of about 80% of them on the occasion that I had dealings with them).

An anecdote to justify my statement:

In '84 or thereabouts, my unit went to a nice little south coast resort for what was supposed to be a normal weekend of military training. On arrival on the Friday night, we were informed that our training had been cancelled and that we were, instead, going to be supplying training for the Regular Reserve on their annual weekend training (their commitment was one weekend per year). We were told to cover as many military subjects as possible but, most importantly, the training was to be interesting, light-hearted and certainly not strenuous.

The timings of the weekend were arranged such that the Reservists could have breakfast at home on the Saturday and turn up at about 10:30 for admin with training starting after lunch. Cease works was to be at 16:00 to allow them to enjoy the delights of the resort. Sunday morning was to start with breakfast at 08:00, training from 09:00 to 12:00, then they would depart.

Our tasks on the Saturday morning included erecting tents for the Reservists as well as creating the various training stands.

When the first Reservists arrived, we were a little surprised to find that many of them were not wearing full sets of uniform. Some admitted that they had sold some of the kit because they didn't expect to have to wear it again. A couple turned up with no kit whatsoever. It appears that their previous annual weekends had been no more than a tick-in-the-box and comprised no more than a weekend on the lash. Fortunately we had access to a few pairs of coveralls, though it remained that many ended up doing their training in trainers - boots seemed to be the favoured items that had been sold.

To say the least, they were not happy to find that they were in for some genuine training. Some had to be persuaded to stay. The initial stands were greeted with a distinct lack of enthusiasm though, when they realised that the training had a large element of fun and encouragement and zero beasting, they began to warm to it.

There were a few surprises, though. One Reservist informed us that he had never handled an SLR. Somehow, he'd always managed to avoid weapon training during his Regular service other than when he was a recruit, at which time Lee Enfields were still around!

By the end of Saturday, the Reservists seemed happy enough.

Sunday morning began with about 50% turnout, many Reservists choosing to stay in bed (maggot, actually) while their hangovers subsided. Training was curtailed early, at about 10:30 "to allow the Reservists a chance to get home for lunch."

During conversations with them, several openly admitted that they'd chosen Reserve Service purely for the bounty and that if mobilisations were in the offing, they'd be heading for Canada.

To be fair, a few had a totally different attitude, wanting to keep in touch with the Green Machine. These blokes were particularly keen and showed an interest in the proceedings.


Thus my experience of the Regular Reserve. Certainly not my idea of reserve of first choice. It would have taken months for some of them to train to an acceptable standard if they'd been mobilised. Also, they weren't in formed units, so rather than being a reserve force, they were a pool of augmentees. Augmenting whom, I don't know. By the time their skills had been brought up to standard, WWIII would have been long over.
 
ugly said:
I certainly recall making a louch pole for a sangar on the pedestrian landing on top of the bridge, it was for a GPMG and made from an accro/screw jack we found on the building site adjacent. The bridge was attacked by TA Paras who seemed to be bullet proof as per the moans in Soldier magazine letters page a month or so later!
I can assure you that those PARAs were not bullet proof, it was merely that I had neutralised you with a series of quite brilliant fire missions prioor to the assault.

Actually I thought they were knobs and on one attack, a regular PARA umpire awarded them 80% casualties because they had displayed the fieldcraft of a retarded sloth. They were from 4 PARA, Sunderland IIRC...
 
sanchauk said:
It's an Army for heavens sake, not a chain of coffee shops. Is the Para culture, or the Marines for example defined by those in it, or by those that run it?
A bit of both plus what has happened before...

The TA or Army Reserve will be defined by a)doctrine and b)operational imperatives. Simple as that. The membership and R&R performance of the TA will be determined by people like us.

Note: R&R here, recruitment and retention. Obviously our performance on the other kind of R&R is usually self-defining!!
 
Cuddles said:
sanchauk said:
It's an Army for heavens sake, not a chain of coffee shops. Is the Para culture, or the Marines for example defined by those in it, or by those that run it?
A bit of both plus what has happened before...

The TA or Army Reserve will be defined by a)doctrine and b)operational imperatives. Simple as that. The membership and R&R performance of the TA will be determined by people like us.

Note: R&R here, recruitment and retention. Obviously our performance on the other kind of R&R is usually self-defining!!
it should also be pointed out that the other "R&R" is a complete misnomer, and that "I&I"* is a much more accurate description of intent if not practice.















*Intercourse and Intoxication
 
putteesinmyhands said:
RP578 said:
The Reserve of First Choice used to be the Regular Reserve. This changed with RFA96.
Aha! Another Utopian concept. People go on about the TA being bounty-hunters, but the Regular Reserve were the masters. (I'll admit that that's a bit of a generalisation, but it was my perception of about 80% of them on the occasion that I had dealings with them).

An anecdote to justify my statement:

Snipped...
All very well criticising the gentle nature of the training for the Regular Reserve. I was asked to organise a training weekend at probably the best military academy in surrey along the line of:

Friday: Arrive, orientation, curry supper.
Saturday: training, lunch, training, dinner night.
Sunday: late start, brunch, wash up, depart.

Not a lot of training was going to be accomplished that weekend.

Unsurprisingly this didn't last very long in contact with someone who took the view that the regular staff to support trg should provide proper trg, not support a weekend that revolved around three sociable meals.
 
Sorry - Yes and ?

Wearing the Queen's Uniform, you forefill all the duties along side the regular army, ther is NO differnce, Pay T & C's all the same, so what's the problem?
 
OK...then please explain why a TA soldier, with operational experience, on the whole will have to start from scratch if he wishes to wear the Queen's Uniform in a regular capacity?

How very Orwellian...we're all equal but some more equal than others.
 
sanchauk said:
OK...then please explain why a TA soldier, with operational experience, on the whole will have to start from scratch if he wishes to wear the Queen's Uniform in a regular capacity?
Because they are all independently minded, radical intellectuals and it takes a while to change that. :wink:

It can be ignored for a maximum of 20 days hence the two week courses.
 
GoodIdeaAtTheTime said:
sanchauk said:
OK...then please explain why a TA soldier, with operational experience, on the whole will have to start from scratch if he wishes to wear the Queen's Uniform in a regular capacity?
Because they are all independently minded, radical intellectuals and it takes a while to change that. :wink:

It can be ignored for a maximum of 20 days hence the two week courses.
:D
 

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