Territorial Army Lineage Book

LD17

MIA
While I diligently try (with a wife and two kids causing interference....) to finalize the next update of my BAOR document, I was discussing another subject recently with another part-time author. Territorial Army Lineages.....best book out there seems to be Frederick's vast two volume lineage book, coupled with Litchfield's TA Artillery tome, both are out of date (1978 & 1988 respectively). I have gathered a literal ton of material (as you may know) on the TA, especially from 1947 on. My question is, would the Lords, Ladies, and Gentlemen here be interested in one if a TA Lineage book was produced? It would be patterned on Litchfield's TA Artillery book, that is we would go by Counties and then Arms of Service (we would do everyone including the small Corps). The other question is do we go full boat from 1908 thru 2012 (with a subsequent Chapter on the AR) or break it down by Volumes....
1) 1908-1947
2)1947-1992
3) 1992-2012 plus the AR?

We would also include snapshots in time of Higher Formations (Divs/Bdes), the HSF, and the Continental TA.

Thoughts ?
 
While I diligently try (with a wife and two kids causing interference....) to finalize the next update of my BAOR document, I was discussing another subject recently with another part-time author. Territorial Army Lineages.....best book out there seems to be Frederick's vast two volume lineage book, coupled with Litchfield's TA Artillery tome, both are out of date (1978 & 1988 respectively). I have gathered a literal ton of material (as you may know) on the TA, especially from 1947 on. My question is, would the Lords, Ladies, and Gentlemen here be interested in one if a TA Lineage book was produced? It would be patterned on Litchfield's TA Artillery book, that is we would go by Counties and then Arms of Service (we would do everyone including the small Corps). The other question is do we go full boat from 1908 thru 2012 (with a subsequent Chapter on the AR) or break it down by Volumes....
1) 1908-1947
2)1947-1992
3) 1992-2012 plus the AR?

We would also include snapshots in time of Higher Formations (Divs/Bdes), the HSF, and the Continental TA.

Thoughts ?

Jaysus, that's a tall ask. All kinds of intertwined histories to unravel. For example, the squadron I was in was a signal squadron, but was subtitled as a Yeomanry squadron. The yeomanry regiment, with history back to 1797 had split about 20 years before I was in it, and continued with both cavalry and signal squadrons.

My signal squadron's parent regiment had two other signal squadrons with numbers descending from before WW1. For example, 42 (East Lancs) Infantry Division begat 42 Infantry Division Signal Regiment, which reduced to 42 Signal Squadron, around the time 42 Div reduced to 42 Bde. 42 Sig Sqn itself reduced to 842 Sig Tp when its parent regiment, 33 Sig Regt reduced to 33 Sig Sqn. That's just one squadron of one regiment (and the other squadrons were like that in terms of lineage), in one Corps. Many/most TA units were like that.

By all means, please do it, but it's going to be a large task.
 

LD17

MIA
Jaysus, that's a tall ask. All kinds of intertwined histories to unravel. For example, the squadron I was in was a signal squadron, but was subtitled as a Yeomanry squadron. The yeomanry regiment, with history back to 1797 had split about 20 years before I was in it, and continued with both cavalry and signal squadrons.

My signal squadron's parent regiment had two other signal squadrons with numbers descending from before WW1. For example, 42 (East Lancs) Infantry Division begat 42 Infantry Division Signal Regiment, which reduced to 42 Signal Squadron, around the time 42 Div reduced to 42 Bde. 42 Sig Sqn itself reduced to 842 Sig Tp when its parent regiment, 33 Sig Regt reduced to 33 Sig Sqn. That's just one squadron of one regiment (and the other squadrons were like that in terms of lineage), in one Corps. Many/most TA units were like that.

By all means, please do it, but it's going to be a large task.
Yes, yes it is BUT my co-author has already delved into it and has massive amounts of information. I have Regimental Histories, TNA documents, and two hard to find HMSO documents….." Revised Titles and Designations of Major Units of The Territorial Army 1951" which charts the unit designations from 3 Sept 1939 and "Cmd.1216, Reorganization of The Territorial Army 1960".
I also have the official list from 1967, of the conversion of the TA to the TAVRA which gives you The complete list of TA units and what new units they formed in 1967.

The question is….. time frames? (See first post) AND will you BUY it !!!!!
; )
 

QRK2

LE
Yes, yes it is BUT my co-author has already delved into it and has massive amounts of information. I have Regimental Histories, TNA documents, and two hard to find HMSO documents….." Revised Titles and Designations of Major Units of The Territorial Army 1951" which charts the unit designations from 3 Sept 1939 and "Cmd.1216, Reorganization of The Territorial Army 1960".
I also have the official list from 1967, of the conversion of the TA to the TAVRA which gives you The complete list of TA units and what new units they formed in 1967.

The question is….. time frames? (See first post) AND will you BUY it !!!!!
; )

1947-2020 and TBH it depends on price.
 

LD17

MIA
1947-2020 and TBH it depends on price.
Thank you! I wonder should I modify the thread with a poll ?
The price will depend on the number of pages (we would like to include Cap badges/unit insignia) and print run I would guess. I’m trying to gauge interest and, frankly, I don’t want to rehash information that may be already out there in multiple formats (ie 1908-1947)
 

Mufulira42

War Hero
While I diligently try (with a wife and two kids causing interference....) to finalize the next update of my BAOR document, I was discussing another subject recently with another part-time author. Territorial Army Lineages.....best book out there seems to be Frederick's vast two volume lineage book, coupled with Litchfield's TA Artillery tome, both are out of date (1978 & 1988 respectively). I have gathered a literal ton of material (as you may know) on the TA, especially from 1947 on. My question is, would the Lords, Ladies, and Gentlemen here be interested in one if a TA Lineage book was produced? It would be patterned on Litchfield's TA Artillery book, that is we would go by Counties and then Arms of Service (we would do everyone including the small Corps). The other question is do we go full boat from 1908 thru 2012 (with a subsequent Chapter on the AR) or break it down by Volumes....
1) 1908-1947
2)1947-1992
3) 1992-2012 plus the AR?

We would also include snapshots in time of Higher Formations (Divs/Bdes), the HSF, and the Continental TA.

Thoughts ?
Wow! truly a labour of love and if you've the time and expected responses from present and past Regimental sources it should be a winner indeed. As an aside, many Colonial regiments still cling to their UK connections and would prove an extra bonus!
 

QRK2

LE
Thank you! I wonder should I modify the thread with a poll ?
The price will depend on the number of pages (we would like to include Cap badges/unit insignia) and print run I would guess. I’m trying to gauge interest and, frankly, I don’t want to rehash information that may be already out there in multiple formats (ie 1908-1947)

I think that without cap badges and insignia (stable belts?) appeal will be somewhat limited, it's a big job.
 
Jaysus, that's a tall ask. All kinds of intertwined histories to unravel. For example, the squadron I was in was a signal squadron, but was subtitled as a Yeomanry squadron. The yeomanry regiment, with history back to 1797 had split about 20 years before I was in it, and continued with both cavalry and signal squadrons.

My signal squadron's parent regiment had two other signal squadrons with numbers descending from before WW1. For example, 42 (East Lancs) Infantry Division begat 42 Infantry Division Signal Regiment, which reduced to 42 Signal Squadron, around the time 42 Div reduced to 42 Bde. 42 Sig Sqn itself reduced to 842 Sig Tp when its parent regiment, 33 Sig Regt reduced to 33 Sig Sqn. That's just one squadron of one regiment (and the other squadrons were like that in terms of lineage), in one Corps. Many/most TA units were like that.

By all means, please do it, but it's going to be a large task.

There's an awful lot of Yoemanry antecedents throughout the Royal Signals. Every man jack had to be able to ride from the Corps' formation up to 1938 hence the spurs and busbies still retained on the bandsmen.
 
The question is….. time frames? (See first post) AND will you BUY it !!!!!
; )

Frankly, no, I probably would not buy it. This is because 90% of the book would about regiments and corps that I know little of, and an equal amount of interest.

However - I have a suggestion. Rather than volumes by timeframe, what about volumes by capbadge? That is something I probably would buy. You could have:

Infantry
Cavalry/Artillery/AAC
RE/R SIGNALS/REME/RLC/INT CORPS
Medical Services
etc

Another alternative would be to do volumes by geographical region/AOR.

There was a series of books called Action Stations, which covered the large numbers of airfields built in the UK int he first half of the the 20th century, and the volumes were organized by geographical location. Example:


If I lived in Lincolnshire, perhaps I would be less interested in airfields of South Wales than the local ones. Same for TA units, I'd be interested in the ones where I lived, and served in. The ORBAT of 13 (Narnia) Div and the controversy of the LOAMSHIRE and BLANKSHIRE amalgamation in 1928 not so much.

Just a suggestion though; your work on BAOR is outstanding.
 

LD17

MIA
Frankly, no, I probably would not buy it. This is because 90% of the book would about regiments and corps that I know little of, and an equal amount of interest.

However - I have a suggestion. Rather than volumes by timeframe, what about volumes by capbadge? That is something I probably would buy. You could have:

Infantry
Cavalry/Artillery/AAC
RE/R SIGNALS/REME/RLC/INT CORPS
Medical Services
etc

Another alternative would be to do volumes by geographical region/AOR.

There was a series of books called Action Stations, which covered the large numbers of airfields built in the UK int he first half of the the 20th century, and the volumes were organized by geographical location. Example:


If I lived in Lincolnshire, perhaps I would be less interested in airfields of South Wales than the local ones. Same for TA units, I'd be interested in the ones where I lived, and served in. The ORBAT of 13 (Narnia) Div and the controversy of the LOAMSHIRE and BLANKSHIRE amalgamation in 1928 not so much.

Just a suggestion though; your work on BAOR is outstanding.
The problem with say doing a volume on the East Midlands (Notts, Derby, Lincolnshire, Northants, Leicester) is that at certain points in time a TA unit comes under control of a HQ out of the region. For example in 1956 the Northamptonshire Yeomanry were reduced to a Sqn and were designated D Sqn The Inns of Court Regt (HQ in London). Similar problem crops up with Arm of Service.
That’s why we were thinking of doing it by County in the book, then subdividing by Arm of Service. I will post tonight an example I did for Dorset (Royal Artillery).
But please keep the suggestions and amount interest coming.
 

LD17

MIA
Oh forgot to add that besides the normal lineages there would be Chapters on HSF, Continental TA, and the plans I have found in the TA ORBAT Review for additional TA units.
 
By all means, please do it, but it's going to be a large task.
. . . . and don't expect to recoup from it any monies in any way commensurate with the time and effort expended to produce a document that (if The Emperor has his way) will be rendered out-of-date on the day after the final, proof-read draft has been irrevocably committed to the printers.
 

LD17

MIA
. . . . and don't expect to recoup from it any monies in any way commensurate with the time and effort expended to produce a document that (if The Emperor has his way) will be rendered out-of-date on the day after the final, proof-read draft has been irrevocably committed to the printers.
I know it won’t but just like my BAOR document it drives me crazy that with all the money spent by MOD they don’t have something simple online that everyone can access. I can get on the Canadian MOD website and literally see official Capbadges, Colours, Lineages, etc for every Regiment!!!!

 
it drives me crazy that with all the money spent by MOD they don’t have something simple online that everyone can access.
If it ain't Regular . . . . It Ain't Real is how I'd sum it up.

Started my paid soldiering life in the TA, and my last (occasionally) uniformed role was as a TA Bn Trg Maj. In between times I met/worked with a good many TA/ Reservists

Most Regulars either don't have that kind of exposure, or they're too invested in the ARAB mindset to see what's in front of them.

I'd wager it's an issue that goes way back (possibly to the days of Huscarls vs The Fyrd) but it's become increasinglt pernicious in the last 100 years, as the Regular officer corps has become increasingly isolated from the realities of life outside The Institution, and the influence of TA/Reserve officers (mostly wealthy gentry, when the TF was founded) has waned, for reasons various, not least - but not exclusively - the death toll of their social class in WW1.
 

FEASG

LE
Fair play to you, but my advice is DON'T DO IT. To do the subject justice it would have to be the size of the Official history of WW I.

And I seriously doubt anyone has the shelf space. Just an example is the LONDONS. Since their formation in 1993 to the Change to The LONDON GUARDS, this month. Their sub units have worn no less than eleven different cap badges/ stars and that's the Infanteers, not including the Atts & Dets.

To follow them all through from the milliner units, and through the 1907 version of the London Regiment, post war changes, cold War and STR to Today. Would be three volumes in itself.
 
I have to admit on a personal level, I'd find it interesting having been TAVR, TA, Regular and now AR, but I don't see a huge market, just my thoughts.
 
The problem with say doing a volume on the East Midlands (Notts, Derby, Lincolnshire, Northants, Leicester) is that at certain points in time a TA unit comes under control of a HQ out of the region. For example in 1956 the Northamptonshire Yeomanry were reduced to a Sqn and were designated D Sqn The Inns of Court Regt (HQ in London). Similar problem crops up with Arm of Service.
That’s why we were thinking of doing it by County in the book, then subdividing by Arm of Service. I will post tonight an example I did for Dorset (Royal Artillery).
But please keep the suggestions and amount interest coming.
Slight thread drift, sorry.
Mark Felton did a great short piece (as he always does) on YT about these chaps, covering the post- D-Day period. I had never heard of them until I saw that.
 

New Posts

Latest Threads

Top