Terrible bridge collapse in Italy

#41
It may have been to the layman but in real terms it was designed by the structural/Civil engineer that was appointed either by Foster (the bald heanded sh1tebag he is) or appointed by the Client. With Foster name attached to the Millau I suspect that it was the former. Either way, the liability for the structural design lies with the structural designer. An architect is most definitely not one of those, unfortunately I work with the useless tossers everyday.




Totally agree with you chap but there is only so much can be done with these things on a refurb. Plus, here in the UK we have many similar structures for our matorways. Thelwall viaduct here in the north west being a prime example. Must be 50 plus years old now. The founds have never been refurbed. They've fecked about with the top bit enough though! All the poxy times I've been stuck in traffic due to roadworks. Mind you, i'd sooner be stuck on it than crushed under it.
That’s about the size of it.

Foster drew a spectacular picture and handed it over to the Frog engineers and said “here you go. Build this”.

This picture:
5C4E0979-7509-4ABA-84AF-D81E9EBBE671.jpeg


The Frog engineers said “Mon Dieu. Farquing rosbif”. Scratched their heads and went off and built it.
 
#42
This is the eleventh road bridge collapse in Italy in the last five years.

This article

Dieci i ponti crollati in 5 anni: in calo la manutenzione e gli investimenti

in Italian, states that the cause is lack of investment in the replacement of obsolete bridges. All structures are given a life-span, after which they must be replaced, but in Italy they are not replacing them, even decades after their sell-by dates.

It has been stated on several news channels that the bridge was refurbished two years ago. I would imagine that the architect and clerk of works are feeling rather nervous right now.
Italy is not the only country. Back home.....

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/02/us/2018-structurally-deficient-bridges-trnd/index.html
 
#44
Looks like some local officials are going to get banged up for this:
View attachment 346200
This is Italy, unlikely. When the G8 was in Genoa, the police decided to rough up some crusty,s Er rather badly. After years of investigation, suspension it was promotions and trebles all round.

They tend not to dwell on failures of the state, for sure they will have long drawn out proceedings, but actual proper punishment,unlikely, look at Silvio.
 
#45
In the 60-70s didn't we regularly have box border bridges collapse during construction?

There's a PDF looking at the phenomenon here.
All the collapsed bridges I could locate from that Italian article were concrete box girder/beam bridges.

I guess the concrete contract was to the “lowest” bidder. The one who didn’t wake up next to a horses head.
 
#46
Quality of the concrete will need to be looked at closely.

Sand is cheap. Cement is expensive. Draw your own conclusions.
Anyone involved in it will be at least 70 years old by now.

Then look at the steel supports, maintenance and prevention of water ingress.
Rebar made from cheap Russian steel (remember Lancias?) will rust and cause weakening of the concrete.

It's Italy. Don't expect a result in the next 20 years.
 
#47
We had a house refurbished in Italy, after a few years plaster outside was very flaky, not due to poor construction it’s just the method the builders used, we have seen it all over the place, it was expected that after say 10 yrs it was all done again.

I would imagine the same principals apply here, it’s a 50 yr old Italian bridge, me I would be looking at all the many, many bridges of this age and type.
 
#48
Quality of the concrete will need to be looked at closely.

Sand is cheap. Cement is expensive. Draw your own conclusions.
Anyone involved in it will be at least 70 years old by now.

Then look at the steel supports, maintenance and prevention of water ingress.
Rebar made from cheap Russian steel (remember Lancias?) will rust and cause weakening of the concrete.

It's Italy. Don't expect a result in the next 20 years.

Very common issue with civils in Italy.
The Mafia made a fortune with construction rackets in the 60’s onwards. As you say, cement and rebar are expensive. It’s a common find after earthquakes to find concrete that’s like biscuit mix and almost no steel.
 
#49
#50
Or, being close to Naples, certain Sicilian gentlemen made the City administrators and the contractors an offer they couldn't refuse and the work was done below par so that profits could be creamed off.

Wordsmith
I recall that in the 1970s, Fiat were puzzled as to why vehicles built in their Turin factory did fewer kilometres to the litre than vehicles with the same engines that were built at the Naples factory.
They spent a lot of time and money analysing the factories tooling and workers skills before discovering the cause.

Test driving had always been carried out along public motorways near the factories, and the kilometre markers beside the road were used to establish distance, not the trip meter. Construction companies had been paid per kilometre for the building of the motorways and Mafia owned companies had built the motorways in the south of the country where their kilometre markers were only set 900m apart.

Cheeky little scamps those Casa Nostra boyos
 
#52
I recall that in the 1970s, Fiat were puzzled as to why vehicles built in their Turin factory did fewer kilometres to the litre than vehicles with the same engines that were built at the Naples factory.
They spent a lot of time and money analysing the factories tooling and workers skills before discovering the cause.

Test driving had always been carried out along public motorways near the factories, and the kilometre markers beside the road were used to establish distance, not the trip meter. Construction companies had been paid per kilometre for the building of the motorways and Mafia owned companies had built the motorways in the south of the country where their kilometre markers were only set 900m apart.

Cheeky little scamps those Casa Nostra boyos
Apologies to @Wordsmith , then. Naples is closer to Genova after all.
 
#53
Seems like the guy who called it a couple of years ago was right:

"The problem with the Morandi Bridge is that the tie rods were made of concrete and not metal. In the 1960s they did not expect concrete to degrade and then collapse. Fifty years ago there was unlimited confidence in reinforced concrete. It was believed to be eternal. With the continuous vibrations of traffic, the cement cracks let air pass through, which reaches the internal metal structure and making it oxidize”.

"For this reason, the bridge has always required extensive maintenance work. It was very expensive to manage."

Zoppi added: "Things built in Italy in the 1950s and 1960s are in urgent need of renovation. The danger of collapse is underestimated. The artefacts built at that time are coming to an age where they become at risk.”

Engineer warned in 2016 that Genoa bridge would need rebuilding

And this is going to gone back and rightly bite certain people in the arrse:

"In 2013, a local committee of the Five Star Movement, now a party in the ruling coalition, dismissed warnings about the bridge's safety: "We are cyclically told the fairy tale of the collapse of the Morandi bridge," the committee wrote."
 
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#55
#56
Quality of the concrete will need to be looked at closely.

Sand is cheap. Cement is expensive. Draw your own conclusions..
.
I guess the foundations were eventually going to give way seeing as they were made up of ten parts sand, one part cement and one part Mafia victim...
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
#60
Will the local authorities have to take out a bridging loan to pay for all this:?
 

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