Terrible bridge collapse in Italy

#21
Or, being close to Naples, certain Sicilian gentlemen made the City administrators and the contractors an offer they couldn't refuse and the work was done below par so that profits could be creamed off.

Wordsmith
That was exactly my first thought.

Bribery and coercion wins contract. Builders skimp on sub-par materials. Bridge fails.

I can’t remember the last time a modern cable stayed bridge collapsed.
 
#23
Or, being close to Naples, certain Sicilian gentlemen made the City administrators and the contractors an offer they couldn't refuse and the work was done below par so that profits could be creamed off.

Wordsmith
Inasmuch as Genova is about as far away from Naples as anywhere else in Italy.
 
#25
Or, being close to Naples, certain Sicilian gentlemen made the City administrators and the contractors an offer they couldn't refuse and the work was done below par so that profits could be creamed off.

Wordsmith
One wonders how many corpses they will find in the broken parts of the bridge structure, possibly being a factor in the structure’s weakness ...
 
#26
This is the eleventh road bridge collapse in Italy in the last five years.

This article

Dieci i ponti crollati in 5 anni: in calo la manutenzione e gli investimenti

in Italian, states that the cause is lack of investment in the replacement of obsolete bridges. All structures are given a life-span, after which they must be replaced, but in Italy they are not replacing them, even decades after their sell-by dates.

It has been stated on several news channels that the bridge was refurbished two years ago. I would imagine that the architect and clerk of works are feeling rather nervous right now.
I looked around the Italian site mentioned above.

One of the 11 collapsed bridges was ten days old.
 
#27
This is the eleventh road bridge collapse in Italy in the last five years.

This article

Dieci i ponti crollati in 5 anni: in calo la manutenzione e gli investimenti

in Italian, states that the cause is lack of investment in the replacement of obsolete bridges. All structures are given a life-span, after which they must be replaced, but in Italy they are not replacing them, even decades after their sell-by dates.

It has been stated on several news channels that the bridge was refurbished two years ago. I would imagine that the architect and clerk of works are feeling rather nervous right now.

Nothing to do with an architect, it would be the responsibility of a structural/civil engineer.


Or, being close to Naples, certain Sicilian gentlemen made the City administrators and the contractors an offer they couldn't refuse and the work was done below par so that profits could be creamed off.

Wordsmith

Naples is about as far south as one can get on the Italian mainland. Genoa is one of the most northern ports on the Med!


A lightning strike would not cause a structure of that nature to collapse. The cause of collapse will be something far more significant.

Corroded reinforcement.
Insufficient reinforcement.
Explosive failure of a pre-stressed member (although I wouldn't expect a single beam failure to cause a collapse).
Something else.

Someone has a lot of explaining to do. Unless the Italians build their bridges as lightly as the septics do, in which case nothing would surprise me...

Not necessarily. The amount of rainfall they've had could have caused liquification of the ground around the base of the pile founds of the bridge supports.
The adjacent sloped ground can also becomes so sodden landslides occur, taking out the piles etc.

Bu the lack of investment in refurb etc is more than likely going to be a factor. Horrible way to go whatever.
 
#28
I looked around the Italian site mentioned above.

One of the 11 collapsed bridges was ten days old.
And effectively this one was only two years old, having been structurally refurbished recently. As others have suggested in this thread, certain "costs" have to be paid, costs of materials have to be cut by using cheaper and often sub-standard materials. Welcome to Italy.
 
#30
And effectively this one was only two years old, having been structurally refurbished recently. As others have suggested in this thread, certain "costs" have to be paid, costs of materials have to be cut by using cheaper and often sub-standard materials. Welcome to Italy.
Unless the entire span & piles were taken down & re-done you can't 'structurally refurbish' & existing structure unless you underpin the thing. Thats a bit difficult with something using piled footing which bridges of this type invariably do. I'd suggest the piles/pile caps & supporting legs are as they were when built. The bridge deck may have been refurbed as that is a simpler process of stripping back to the tarmac/concrete surfacing layers to the RC concrete/steel primary structure - the connections within which can then be stiffened/renewed. This wouldn't necessarily cause any issues with the supports & their foundations though.

EDIT to add, stiffening any structural connections however can be detrimental to the structure as its supposed to move to allow for expansion/contraction of its components as well as 'flex' with wind loading's & the like. Stiffen it too much & you create an unstable structure under certain conditions.
 
#31
To be fair, how long was a terrible bridge going to last. Should have built a good one.
 
#32
Nothing to do with an architect, it would be the responsibility of a structural/civil engineer.





Naples is about as far south as one can get on the Italian mainland. Genoa is one of the most northern ports on the Med!





Not necessarily. The amount of rainfall they've had could have caused liquification of the ground around the base of the pile founds of the bridge supports.
The adjacent sloped ground can also becomes so sodden landslides occur, taking out the piles etc.

Bu the lack of investment in refurb etc is more than likely going to be a factor. Horrible way to go whatever.
I suppose a pedant might argue that the Millau Viaduct was designed by the architect Sir Richard Rogers.
 
#33
Unless the entire span & piles were taken down & re-done you can't 'structurally refurbish' & existing structure unless you underpin the thing. Thats a bit difficult with something using piled footing which bridges of this type invariably do. I'd suggest the piles/pile caps & supporting legs are as they were when built. The bridge deck may have been refurbed as that is a simpler process of stripping back to the tarmac/concrete surfacing layers to the RC concrete/steel primary structure - the connections within which can then be stiffened/renewed. This wouldn't necessarily cause any issues with the supports & their foundations though.

EDIT to add, stiffening any structural connections however can be detrimental to the structure as its supposed to move to allow for expansion/contraction of its components as well as 'flex' with wind loading's & the like. Stiffen it too much & you create an unstable structure under certain conditions.
But this is Italy - the bridge was built in the 1960s, and would have been signed-off with an expected lifespan, which, like many others here would have been completely ignored.
Instead of replacing an obsolete bridge they "refurbished" it.
You are correct, Ches, but this is Italy, and it has an 11 bridges in five years track record. Even in earthquakes here it's often the newest buildings that collapse first. There's no simple answer here.... standing in post office queues listening to Italians complain about everything, the answer they all seem to finish with for most arguments is "siamo in Italia" - "We're in Italy".
 
#34
I suppose a pedant might argue that the Millau Viaduct was designed by the architect Sir Richard Rogers.
It may have been to the layman but in real terms it was designed by the structural/Civil engineer that was appointed either by Foster (the bald heanded sh1tebag he is) or appointed by the Client. With Foster name attached to the Millau I suspect that it was the former. Either way, the liability for the structural design lies with the structural designer. An architect is most definitely not one of those, unfortunately I work with the useless tossers everyday.

But this is Italy - the bridge was built in the 1960s, and would have been signed-off with an expected lifespan, which, like many others here would have been completely ignored.
Instead of replacing an obsolete bridge they "refurbished" it.
You are correct, Ches, but this is Italy, and it has an 11 bridges in five years track record. Even in earthquakes here it's often the newest buildings that collapse first. There's no simple answer here.... standing in post office queues listening to Italians complain about everything, the answer they all seem to finish with for most arguments is "siamo in Italia" - "We're in Italy".

Totally agree with you chap but there is only so much can be done with these things on a refurb. Plus, here in the UK we have many similar structures for our matorways. Thelwall viaduct here in the north west being a prime example. Must be 50 plus years old now. The founds have never been refurbed. They've fecked about with the top bit enough though! All the poxy times I've been stuck in traffic due to roadworks. Mind you, i'd sooner be stuck on it than crushed under it.
 
#36
Looks like some local officials are going to get banged up for this:
bridge.JPG
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
#37
I looked around the Italian site mentioned above.

One of the 11 collapsed bridges was ten days old.
In the 60-70s didn't we regularly have box border bridges collapse during construction?

There's a PDF looking at the phenomenon here.
 
#38
One report mentioned the possible cause was a "violent cloudburst" as taking out one of the support columns. If a cloudburst did take out the column, @Wordsmith is right - someone has fucked up with a capital F.

Edited to add: Conspiracy lunatics are already claiming that it was a controlled explosion that did it.
In the video I linked to above, when you first see it, it looks like enough of the column is still standing to be visible over the buildings but the deck has already fallen. Difficult to make out clearly though.
 

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