Terms of Service

#1
I'm having to sign some terms of service to go on my upgraders course and was wondering if they are legally binding as there's no financal payment at the end of the course anymore, or if it was just another trick by the Army to make you think you were tied to the job. I'm not gonna jump ship as soon as I finish the course but it'd be nice not to be tied down for another 3 years.

Thanks in advance

F_C
 
#2
It depends what you are doing. No point of going on a course then for you to have a change of hart and leave, That wasted slot. used to have loads do a particular Sigs course then sign off and join BT
 
#3
Forsaken_Child said:
I'm having to sign some terms of service to go on my upgraders course and was wondering if they are legally binding as there's no financal payment at the end of the course anymore, or if it was just another trick by the Army to make you think you were tied to the job. I'm not gonna jump ship as soon as I finish the course but it'd be nice not to be tied down for another 3 years.

Thanks in advance

F_C
I just had to give a return of service of 2 years for a course which had no financial retention incentive attached.

The return of service is based on the training and the Army wanting a return for the investment they are making in you.

I would imagine that a course which holds a 3 year time bar means you are making a major step forward in your carear, and if your unsure whether you still want to be wearing green in 3 years time, you should think seriously about whether you should attend the course.

Boney
 
#8
If it's any consolation they have the same policies in civ-div. My employer is paying me through my degree and I cannot terminate my employment unless I reimburse the total costs of the course + the costs of my time off to attend it. I wouldn't want to anyway, it's a students dream being fully paid to do a degree and now quite alot of companies do this.
Which is nice.
 
#9
Sgt_Bilko said:
Soldier_Why said:
Sgt_Bilko said:
No, they are not legally binding.
Please qualify this remark!
Can't give you any quotes from regulations, but i've seen it first hand a person who had been 'time-barred' signed-off and got out before the time-bar run-out date.
Thats not to say whether he/she was denied NTT and he/she challenged it!!
 
#10
Sgt_Bilko said:
Can't give you any quotes from regulations, but i've seen it first hand a person who had been 'time-barred' signed-off and got out before the time-bar run-out date.
In which case don't make statements such as those unless you have the evidence to back it up. The original poster asked a question to which you gave an emphatic answer, then when questioned you admit you know absolutely nothing about it.

Let those who are in the know answer these type of questions!
 
#11
I need advice. I have a 3 year time bar due to a course I completed in 03. Since completing the course I have married. Married life has brought with it some radical changes and I now need to leave the Army. I resigned in January. I've given the statutory period for notice. However, my MCM is telling me that because I've got a further year time bar I cannot leave. I've argued that I have a compassionate case to go. Where do I stand legally? I thought that as I'd resigned I cant be forced to stay, I'm hearing different from my MCM. Additionally, if I'm told to leave but repay the cost of the course I can't afford it.

Has there been precedents of people leaving within a time bar
If so how do I find out and how do I persuade the system to let me go.

Please no rumours - I need facts
 
#12
Soldier_Why said:
Sgt_Bilko said:
Can't give you any quotes from regulations, but i've seen it first hand a person who had been 'time-barred' signed-off and got out before the time-bar run-out date.
... then when questioned you admit you know absolutely nothing about it....
Thats not entirely true what you're saying, is it ? Done a bit more research into this (information given by someone who is qualified to give advice on this) and it is NOT legally binding - European Employment Law (for which the Services are covered). This backs-up my original claim. Sorry I don't have the specific paragraph number handy !!
 

BuggerAll

LE
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#13
I can only add to the hearsay - I was told by an ALS lawyer that the MOD is worried because they believe that they may not be able to uphold time barring - We were discussing it because my wife has done a course and we wondered what the implications were.

Bearing in mind what has been said, quite correctly, about adding to rumours I think you should seek proper, qualified legal advice before making any decisions.

But I also think that you should not go on a course unless you reasonably expect to fulfill the time bar. Its not fair on others who might want to go on the course and its not fair on the taxpayer who is paying for it.
 
#14
The little I have heard of this problem is second hand.

In this case it was a naval officer who wanted to leave, but was subject to a return of service.

He took it as far as an industrial tribunal - and lost ( 3 years left to serve out of a 5 year return of service)

My source for this is my brother who was at the hearing as part of the team representing the RN.

As a post script I am told that the said officer then tried to get out by announcing he was gay. This missfired this because at the time the MoD was already expecting to loose in the ECJ the cases regarding those already dismissed from the service due to homosexuality. Thus he was told no way we will let you go and then have you try to sue us for unfair dismissal. :lol:
 
#15
I have seen 1 person leave before the Time Bar but it was for exceptional compassionate circumstances (Wife died, left alone to bring up 2 kids) In that case we (the unit) were able to persuade MCM Div to wiave the time bar.

Other than that it has been looked into and is legally binding.

The other other option is for you to pay back the cost of the course.
 
#16
This all suggests that there is some choice in doing these courses. I certainly had no choice in attending my upgrade course. Cynically speaking the only people who gain from mil cse pass is the mil, so what would you pay back?

On a more amusing note, can you imagine how small the Army would be with only a weeks' notice? :twisted:

It is rumoured that under eurolaw, as we are only paid in one month periods we can elect to offer the same commitment - anyone for a years pay in one go? :!:
 
#17
There does not need to be a financial payment to support a simple contract. Every simple contract must however be supported by consideration - "some right, interest, profit or benefit accruing to one party, or some forebearance, detriment, loss or responsibility given, suffered or undertaken by the other" Currie v Misa. The Army I'm sure would argue that you accrue benefit from attending the course.

A civilian firm would be unable to get a court to order specific performance of a contract of personal services on the basis that it is contrary to public policy to compel an unwilling party to maintain continuous personal relations with another (also it would require constant supervision).

However you are not dealing with a civilian firm trying to enforce an employment contract!
 

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