Tempest Manned Unmanned Fighter Concept

Mr._Average

Old-Salt
Seems the Japanese have aspirations in this area as well. I think it has been discussed that, amongst other things, they would be a very good partner to add to the Tempest consortium. If nothing else, the "artist's impression" of their efforts looks similar enough that a conversation with Tokyo might be in order.

 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Seems the Japanese have aspirations in this area as well. I think it has been discussed that, amongst other things, they would be a very good partner to add to the Tempest consortium. If nothing else, the "artist's impression" of their efforts looks similar enough that a conversation with Tokyo might be in order.

The Yanks are putting heavy pressure on them to join their latest wheeze. We are chatting too. Best hope that blonde feckwit in the Downing Street doesn't **** things up by revealing himself to be a unreliable, dishonest partner on the world stage
 
The Yanks are putting heavy pressure on them to join their latest wheeze. We are chatting too. Best hope that blonde feckwit in the Downing Street doesn't **** things up by revealing himself to be a unreliable, dishonest partner on the world stage
BoJo could be the Messiah and it won't stop the Japanese from toeing the US line.
Look how the Canadian fighter choice is working out.
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
That's a real shame.
Yep.
But it's the new US line.
"In order to interface with our networks as part of a combined fighting force, you need to have X installed, and we won't allow you to install X on non US manufactured aircraft"
See Canada.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Yep.
But it's the new US line.
"In order to interface with our networks as part of a combined fighting force, you need to have X installed, and we won't allow you to install X on non US manufactured aircraft"
See Canada.
I had no doubt that there would have been arm-twisting from the world's largest free-market economy.
 
Will a future RAF unmanned fighter use AI to produce its own monthly expenses claims ?
Produce them ? - yes
Get them signed off ? - do behave !
There will be a second AI designed to reject claims wherever possible in main block. It will like watching two chess masters try and outwit each other. Submit, reject,counter submission etc etc...
 
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Wait out, apparently no decision has been made, talks continuing, decision around December

Unless Japan is remarkably brave, don't see them choosIng us over US when they are dependent on forming an integrated force with the US.
 
Wait out, apparently no decision has been made, talks continuing, decision around December

From what I understand of the situation, it comes down to an argument between diplomacy which says to placate the Americans by giving them big contracts, and industrial policy, which says to partner with someone who will give Japan a design role in a project.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
From what I understand of the situation, it comes down to an argument between diplomacy which says to placate the Americans by giving them big contracts, and industrial policy, which says to partner with someone who will give Japan a design role in a project.
Precisely the boat we found ourselves in, we've just made a decision earlier.
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
UKDJ reporting Japanese local press saying that they have gone with Americans, but it was reported earlier that no decisions would be taken until closer to the end of the year I wonder if this is simply up potential local partners

 
UKDJ reporting Japanese local press saying that they have gone with Americans, but it was reported earlier that no decisions would be taken until closer to the end of the year I wonder if this is simply up potential local partners

At the bottom of this post you will find the Google Translate version of Sankei News story the UKdefencejournal are basing their story on. According to this the problem came down to the Japanese wanted to be the lead partner in control of developing a new fighter and didn't like the idea of being an equal member of a consortium. That idea was probably a non-starter, as the Japanese aren't bringing enough to the table to be able to demand being in control of the project.

The US companies are going to be selling technology to the Japanese, but Tokyo want this to be a "Japanese" aircraft. The time frame they are looking at is in the mid 2030s when 90 F2 fighters are to be retired.

It supposedly will be a derivative of the F-35, but it's questionable whether everyone is in agreement with just what that means. The Japanese will want as much technology transfer as possible, while I suspect the Americans will be trying to sell the Japanese some stock F-35s which they will magnanimously allow the Japanese to make minor upgrades to while allowing them as little insight into the key technologies as possible.

I wouldn't take this decision as being final. This is part of an ongoing battle in Japan between different factions in the bureaucracy. Some want to use defence purchasing to upgrade Japan's defence manufacturing industries, while others want to buy off the shelf at as low a price as possible in order to protect the sacred cow of keeping defence spending at no more than 1% of GDP.

This decision makes it appear that the industrial policy faction are in the ascendancy at the moment. However when they start getting into the actual detailed negotiations of what underlying technology the Americans will actually sell to the Japanese and what they will only sell as black boxes, then there may be a falling out. US companies may be willing to do technology transfer in return for money, but the US government has to approve that and they usually want to keep as much to themselves as possible in order to maintain leverage over potential rivals.

Should that falling out occur, then Japan may come back around to Tempest again.

It was revealed on the 18th that the government has decided to establish a working group composed of Japanese and US companies to develop the next fighter to succeed the Air Self-Defense Force's F2 fighter. Considering either the United States or the United Kingdom as a partner country for co-development, the United Kingdom was considered to be influential for a time, but it means that the final adjustment will be made in co-development with the United States. It was decided that the United States would be suitable for developing under the initiative of Japan in order to maintain the manufacturing base of fighter aircraft.

-The next fighter will be developed as the first Japanese-made stealth fighter that is hard to be caught by radar so that it can be deployed from the year 17 of Reiwa, when about 90 F2 will be retired. The budget for the 2nd fiscal year was about 28 billion yen, and the initial design of the fighter system was started.

The mid-term defense plan (2018 for 5 years), which was formulated in 2018, is a basic policy for promoting the development of the next fighter. "With a view to", and "development led by Japan." The partner country for joint development will be decided by the end of the second year of Reiwa.

UK plans to develop a new fighter at the same time as Japan's next fighter. The government leaned toward joint development with the United Kingdom because it believed that it was easier for the United Kingdom to achieve development led by Japan than the United States. However, the British government also emphasized that it would bring profits to companies in its own country, and realized that companies in other countries in Europe could participate in the development, and questioned the realization of Japan's initiative.

The next fighter is required to have interoperability that enables the SDF and the U.S. forces to co-operate efficiently, and co-development with the U.S. is easy to ensure interoperability. We have proposed joint development of derivative type based on F35. There was strong concern within the government that the development plan would be seized by the United States.
PR

Due to Japanese concerns, the US government withdrew the derivative development plan and turned to a stance of maximizing understanding of Japan-led joint development. Then, by setting up multiple consultation frameworks between the US and Japanese governments and considering the content of cooperation, the government will proceed with joint development with the United States at the end of last year, and with the UK, set a direction to limit cooperation such as part development. I confirmed it.

"Absolute condition" led by Japan is the decisive factor: F2 successor, joint development with US
 

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