Tell me again why UK foreign aid is ring fenced?

F

fozzy

Guest
#1
India to place $11bn order for AIP hi-tech submarines • The Register

So the Indian Government can find $11 Bn to build a fleet of advanced submarines. This is in addition to funding a Space Programme, and a Nuclear Weapons capability.

All this, when there is serious talk of wholesale abandonment of complete areas of the UK's military capability under the SDSR, whilst the foreign aid budget is ringfenced.

I think a foreign aid programme is a generally a good thing, but why give money to India when it can obviously afford to buy kit and capability of this quality?
 
#2
If they were to spend a substantial chunk of that $11 billion in the UK then the aid investment might have had some benefit.
Will they spend it in the UK? I don't know, but I doubt it.
If Vickers in Barrow got the order then the aid package could be considered money well spent.
 
#3
Fat chance, China or Korea will get the order. We keep chucking money at these states and seem to get next to **** all back while China seem to get the majority of the contracts and mineral rights, surely there ust be some way of saying we give you x amount therefore we must have y amount of return for it.
 

Travelgall

MIA
Kit Reviewer
#4
Why is aid ringfenced? Well its so this money can be used to give to industry in the UK subsidies. Piss poor Country A gets aid, aid given on condition that country that gave it - B's products are bought. Country A pays country B its own money to buy country B goods. Country A remains poor but with a nice shiny White Elephant Dam/Airport/Bridge to nowhere/Irrigation system that is unsuted for the Monocrop of the Region. Country B keeps Dam/Airport maker in business. Pop Star C who is avoiding paying taxes in country B, D, E, F, G, H ,I , J .... says nice things about country B.

Simples!
 
#5
Fat chance, China or Korea will get the order. We keep chucking money at these states and seem to get next to **** all back while China seem to get the majority of the contracts and mineral rights, surely there ust be some way of saying we give you x amount therefore we must have y amount of return for it.
i still like the idea of telling them,we've come to our senses and you can **** off,better.
 
#6
So Britain gets nothing in return for this so called aid???
I think the folks at Westland helicopters in Yeoville might disagree.
Indian Air Force Signs

Why is Britain not in with a chance re: the submarine order??
It might be because Britain only builds nuclear subs and the requirement is for diesels!!!!!!
8ak - Indian Defence News

Quote "8ak: Why are others like Fincanteri, BAE Systems and US manufacturers not in the deal?

Yadav: RFI was sent to French DCNS, Spanish Navantia, Russian Rubin, Italy's Fincantieri and German HDW (now owned by Thyssenkrup). Great Britain and America only build nuclear submarines and not diesel electric."

China won't get the order it's an enemy.
Korea?? which one north or south??

The truth about this so called aid.
Cut in DFID aid not a concern for India

Talking of beggers and poverty

Ministers to build a new 'special relationship' with India - Telegraph

You actually think that £250 million per year is a great deal, compared to UK exports of goods and services to India annually of £5 billion??
Get a calculator and work it out.
The Americans are way ahead of the UK, it's about long term trade.
$5 billion India,US to ink huge military deal: report - GlobalTimes

US offers top-of-line weapons to India-Politics/Nation-News-The Economic Times
 
#7
You actually think that £250 million per year is a great deal, compared to UK exports of goods and services to India annually of £5 billion??
Get a calculator and work it out.
I take it we don't import anything from India then? Or do they give us aid?
Maybe the aid would be better spent cutting taxes for those that export goods from the UK.
 
#10
So how much FA goes to Africa, and what do we get from them in return?

If, and it's a big fcuking IF, we make a profit on the FA we send to India then fair enough. But there's no such thing as a free lunch and purely humanitarian aid with no quid pro quo is a luxury we can no longer afford.
 
#11
Werewolf

I have no idea how much UK aid goes to Africa.
But again it is not as simple as just handing out cash, although that does happen.
The EC, which we pay shit loads to, pays subsidies to to exporters from europe to basically dump agricultural products in africa. Those subsidies come out of our taxes.
There is no way 1 tonne of tomatoes/processed chicken produced in a factory in Northern England, where the workforce is paid UK minimum wage, NI, fuel costs and other costs etc is cheaper than all the local produce. Why should those producers be paid to export products that are not viable?
Local producers are wiped out and then have to come to europe looking for work.

Would you walk into a bar and buy everyone a drink for nothing??
or would you buy someone a drink if you thought you would get something out of it??

"If, and it's a big fcuking IF, we make a profit on the FA we send to India then fair enough. But there's no such thing as a free lunch and purely humanitarian aid with no quid pro quo is a luxury we can no longer afford."

Did you actually read the link??
Cut in DFID aid not a concern for India

This big "AID" donation that everyone harps on about is approx £250 million over 3 years. The Indian govt didn't ask for it, thats why the UK govt offered it to NGO's ....Non Governmental Organisations, the clue is in the name, it is nothing to do with the Indian govt.
Read the link, it is spent on UK "Consultants" to ensure the money gets back to the UK.
You are right though there is no such thing as a Free Lunch this so called aid has a price such as the helicopter deal for Westlands!!
 
#12
Tell me again why UK foreign aid is ring fenced?

We do it in a forlorn hope that it will convince other countries on the World's stage that we are what we were rather than what we are - a third rate nation with no money for its' own let alone for other countries.

Every Govt, regardless of party would rather be overseas pressing hands and looking big whilst their populations at home were out ouf work / starving etc, etc. We are not the only nation that behaves in such a stupid way.

All these nations that plead poverty do so to get money to pay for bribes, big houses, cars and to keep their populations where they want them - under the thumb and too poor and badly educated and dis-organised to rebel.

I know some of that money comes back as has been said but I doubt if we ever get anywhere near back compared to what we put in. Rather like the European Community.....

Rant over I shall now take a breath !

D_B
 
#13
stacker1

Of course Britain does, the days when trade was all one way are long gone.
Have you actually read any of those links??
So whats the need for a 250 million aid package? Is trade going to stop because they dont get it?
 
#15
Yes it is Baksheesh, that is what it is.
And no trade won't stop, of course not.
This so called aid package was announced by Liarbour a particularly odious bunch of *******.
Again Stacker1, it's not real aid, most goes to UK consultants and the rest to UK companies.
 
#16
AIP subs?

That will be Spanish/French?German technology they're buying then.
 
#17
Singh I think you are being disengenious on the percentage of DFID budget that gets spent on tied good projects or services. The vast majority of it IS pissed up the wall.

The only reason it is ring fenced is because Blair and Brown had it as one of their biggest priorities for the last 13 years and by ring fencing it Cameron avoided the whole murky mess of "CAMERON THINKS AFRICAN BABIES SHOULD STARVE VOTE LABOUR". Which would have done him great damage with the islington elite he had spent 5 years winning over.

Expect to see the DfID budget move rapidly towards tied aid over the next 5 years though. Also I fully support MOD and FO demands that DfID pay for the aid aspects of UK military deployments.
 
#18
Guys, it is being said that it is ring fenced to keep the Guarianistas, BBC and lib dems happy, what is not being broadcast is foreign aid is going to be to be used in a much more sensible fashion, such as using part of the aid budget to buy/lease dedicated strategic airlift for use in natural disasters, always useful to have around. Also maybe bankrolling some of the 'soft skills' that are needed to compliment the efforts of HMAF and would be good to have available on a permanent basis.

Do not think that the aid budget ring fenced or not is going to continue as a give away to Swiss bank accounts.
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#19
Guys, it is being said that it is ring fenced to keep the Guarianistas, BBC and lib dems happy, what is not being broadcast is foreign aid is going to be to be used in a much more sensible fashion, such as using part of the aid budget to buy/lease dedicated strategic airlift for use in natural disasters, always useful to have around. Also maybe bankrolling some of the 'soft skills' that are needed to compliment the efforts of HMAF and would be good to have available on a permanent basis.

Do not think that the aid budget ring fenced or not is going to continue as a give away to Swiss bank accounts.
A lot of us Guardianistas think that the aid budget should be spent in more pragmatic and effective ways such as you suggest instead of going into unreachable Swiss bank accounts of corrupt Swabenzi. it's just we get screeeeeeeeeeeched out by the more vociferously naive.
 
#20
ASICarrot

I am not being disengenious at all. All I am doing is questioning the belief that this so called aid is given purely out of good will and that Britain gets nothing in return.
You say "The vast majority of it IS pissed up the wall" the mere fact that it is announced, given, spent in anyway IS pissing it way.
The Indian govt hasn't asked for it, why is it given??

I don't think Cameron and co would have been held to any criticism by anyone in India if it had been withdrawn. The BBC, Guardian crowd are cock$ of the lowest order who live in a total dream world.

If this issue bothers you guys on ARRSE so much and I know it does, why don't you start a FAcebook group, you could call it something like "Save Britain, Boycott India" we could publicise it across as many Indian forums as possible, official Govt ones as well as non govt, business ones. I could find out the contact details for Indian newspaper Editors, there could be an ARRSE demo outside of Westlands in Yeoville demanding that the company refuse to deal with India, also one outside of the CBI, BAE. It wouldn't be to difficult to find out the names of UK companies that trade with India.
What do you say?????
Of course this will affect trade relations maybe to the tune of £5 billion, but the important thing is Britain would save £250 million.
 

Latest Threads

Top