Discussion in 'The NAAFI Bar' started by crabby, Nov 29, 2006.

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  1. What is wrong with them? They actually lose braincells when they hit 13 which they only gain back sometime later (to lose through drink).

    13 year old today attacks another with a pair of scissors; "what did you do wrong?"
    "why are you out of the classroom"
    "right, you attacked X with a pair of scissors"
    "oh my fcuking god... just, oh my fcuking god"

    followed by a flouncing 13 year old.

    What the fcuk is wrong with these little sh*tes? Other than cnut parents who won't sh*t on their kids from a great height when they do things wrong.

    These little scrotes need a form of discipline and structure in their life that unfortunately a school can not provide. Anyone want to offer to sign them up and beast them - then confiscate all mobile phone cameras and teach them proper respect? :evil:
  2. Totally agree with your sentiments, but you can look younger than teenagers to start imposing serious discipline. if its left till their teens then i'll wager its too late to do much in some cases.

    Mrs ASS has a 5 year old and now i'm step ASS. To say he was a little sod is an understatement. he used to kick, hit, shout and scream at her. If she said "no" to anything he used to tell her he was going to kill her when he grew up.

    i frankly was shocked and stunned, and for the first few months limited what i did about it (not my place).

    After about 3 months, the regime started, which was a shock to the little ones system, but, i'm glad to say, he hasn't done anything worse than slam a door since. Physical punishment has not been used at all, but at one stage his bedroom did look like a cell in colchester, the TV, playstation, everything but the bed was removed. He works for rewards, stands to attention when being told off and is generally a nice kid to be around now.

    I dont believe you can always blame parents however, if defence of Mrs ASS, all she did was provide for him the best she could (ok, a little spoilt he was) and i believe she was trying to make up for him only having one parent.
  3. Agreed - by no means always parents' fault. Those from broken families tend to be more attention seeking and/or aggressive, but you couldn't guess most kid's backgrounds by their behaviour. I do believe primary schools are too soft and unstructured. Some kids are just bad.

    But I just wish kids could be influenced the way you so succesfully have with yours. They know they can't be "got" in anyway that means anything to them - and if they can they'll "get you back".

    I'm just waiting for the inevitable moment when I get told to foxtrot oscar by some jumped up 14 year old - it happens every week now - I'm lucky to have avoided so. In reward they get a few days off (suspension).

    The way to get around this; "internal exclusion" isn't run effectively - they steal wipe cards and go on rampages through the site, calling people on their phones etc... confiscate the lot and have them in fcuking silence all fcuking day - preferably something menial as well (if they finish early some data entry). If they refuse battle of wills; they'll get bored first for fcuks sake.
  4. After my time in the Army, I am now a psychology student. Whilst I possibly wouldn't have my kid (when I have any) stand to attention, the reward system you mention is highly effective (as you have seen for yourself). It is normally refered to as the Token Economy (a form of opereant conditioning, based on verbal rules) and it has shown to be effective with various populations, from kids with ADHD to adults with psychiatric problems even to prison offenders.

    However, I did read of one study where a child was conditioned to behave well in school by an educational psychologist - great success the kid's reading improved more in a couple of months than it had done in years. The problem was the kids behaviour never improved outside of the school setting (because the conditioning was only geared towards school) and sadly, the kid ended up in a young offenders institution.

    I was going to post you a wiki link, but this one seems much more informative, just in case this gives you any ideas to make it even more effective:


    But it's great to hear that this is working for you.

  5. I think it's harder for schools to instill the discipline, it should done at home so that the schools don't need to! As i said before however it isn't always the parents, therefore schools need the ability to do so if needed.

    The scenario at school now must be a nightmare for some teachers, in classes of 30-35 how can a teacher deal properly with 2-3 bad individuals? They have to detract from the lesson in hand (unfair for the children that want to learn) and deal with the trouble causers.

    I'm not sure how schools could deal with it better? Certainly ban all mobiles for a start, stricter discipline and allow teachers to use authority (which is all but lost now).

    any other ideas?
  6. My classes are a maximum of 25. In one class I have 1 problem child - who's just totally off the wall, completely nutty and reeks of neglect. Another class I have 40% of them on the special educational needs register - a couple of them for severe behaviour. I have collegues teaching ~80% SEN registered classes. There is a lack of respect from the problem kids to property, themselves, other pupils and authority figures. I'm currently trying to instil "manners" - teaching them what these are within my normal lessons - without them nothing would get done.

    The only thing I find depressing is that there are still a majority who WANT to learn - and as mentioned more attention is given to those causing trouble; no matter how hard teachers work to include everyone. Focussing on the good children within a class is the only way some collegues get through a tough lesson.

    I do actually enjoy my job; I'm just in a bad mood, ranting, traffic was awful and I've now tanked myself up on Whisky because I don't feel well. Kids are lovely really... :evil:
  7. Thanks for that A_L, its very informative and definately gives a few more ideas.

    at present we use a stamp chart system, it is a A4 sheet with certain headings and we can fill in what we want in the sub headings. So if something is getting bad, on your nerves or needs addressing we write it at the beginning of the week and let him know. Before bed, he gets a tick or a cross for the relevant tasks. If a full day of ticks is acheived, a star is given and 50p pocket money. a cross and he doesn't get anything.

    in the beginning, it was full of crosses and he didnt really care, now he will not settle for bed until its done. we have had numerous weeks of 7 stars (which gets a special reward like swimming, cinema or suchlike) and its going well.

    by the way, the standing to attention thing was something that stemmed from him slouching about when he was being spoken to, hes done it automatically ever since!
  8. Can i ask how you deal with it at present? What tools do you have to get along and progress with children of this nature? I'm interested to know as its a good few years since i was at school, and we didnt really dare treat teachers how you appear to be treated nowadays.

    PS sorry for going off thread a little earlier!
  9. It was perfectly on thread; it's how children behave.

    Positive praise; as mentioned. Works until a certain age. Some don't care though. x number of stamps = a merit, x number of merits = a postcard home. When their parents get a postcard home saying they're working really well it makes them so much nicer (but they have to earn it).

    Not talking over them. I will NOT speak until I have quiet - some teachers don't - unfortunately one caused me problems today by intervening when I was waiting *sigh*

    If they're not shutting up start adding minutes to the board they will stay in after class - over break/lunch/after school. Legally we can do 15mins without informing parents.

    Firm, assertive, fair - I have a set of class rules to refer to.

    Rapport - make sure they like you.

    Sometimes a warning; then getting them outside the classroom for a dressing down will sort out minor-medium trangressions. Depends on kid.

    If they're really confrontational and refuse to move senior staff "remove" them from lesson and a whole world of sh*t opens up on them - nothing to do with me. Also not enough sh*t in my opinion. Parents making complaints their innocent little darlings are being taken out of lessons for such "minor" infractions as; (in one lesson) 13 year old screaming "oral sex" at a teacher, talking openly and with great descriptiveness about porn, insulting teacher, swearing at teacher, attacking fellow pupils. Apparently he's "depressed".

    I'm not wonderful at classroom management; as am relatively new to game. Some arrse users have been plying their trade longer. If you want a lovely book to read most recommend "you know the fair rule" by Bill Rogers.

    I recommend stringing them up by their toenails until they beg us not to throw the salt water on open wounds :twisted:
  10. Yeah, the system you have described is pretty much what I'm gonna use when I have kids. It's also great your using rewards that the whole family, too.

    And I think that you have prob. saved him from a life of Buerburry when he's a teenager, too!
  11. How different it is from my Mum's days, mine wasn't too bad either, the decline seemed to terminal and it shows in the spelling standards and manners.

    My Mum used to tell me how they were in fear of the Teachers, they made sure they got their times table correct first time otherwise they got a cane on hand, any minor infractions, a cane, talking in class , a cane or maybe a duster thrown at you, tell your parents about your Teacher caneing you, you simply got a belting off Dad on top of your caneing.

    seemed there was a method in the madness.

    mine school days wasn't as bad, but i did get a caneing a few times, I turned out ok.
  12. But what did you do out of school? Did you misbehave then when you had the chance?

    Something else I've discovered - and had been told about - at the end of the day they could be in complete fear of you and all sit silently, but they may just have learnt to sit quietly. They don't have to be listening or working. Demonstrated by complete silence from 25 year 10s, one sentence instruction, 2 seconds later "Sir, what are we doing?". A lack of being able to concentrate unless someone is talking directly to them - and at times their minds will wander even if directly infront addressing them.

    So basically I'm not a fan of the cane; I don't think it's needed; even though I often make reference to bring back the birch, electric shock treatment and having them running round the playground holding their bags above their heads!!! (to be honest, I think the last technique would work with some of the "silly boys", not the malicious ones, but the ones that have too much energy and little focus)
  13. a mate of mine dishes out spoonfulls of tabasco sauce to his kids if they're naughty. he must have 2 of the politest boys i have ever met.

    i agree with the parents being the problem at times. 2 guys i know have done the teaching thing, one loves it but is at a private school where the parents pay a lot of money for their kids education and are totally on the teachers side if the kid steps out of line. the other has since packed it in after 3 years, he worked at a comprehensive where he said there were 4 or 5 in each class who wanted to learn and the other 20 - odd messed about because they knew they could get away with it. he was even suspended when a kid accused him of assault. what happened to the kid when it was eventually found out that he was lying, nothing!!!

    you all have my respect for being teachers!
  14. I was lucky i got to the local grammar school so the main problem was drugs with too many rich kids and too much time on their hands. As such i always respected my teachers who were in many cases from the old-school of discipline with A-grade bollockings. However my sister is at the local of 1500 little scrotes and some of the stories that come out of that shitehole.....
    Teachers there are unable to control a class of 12 years olds, imagine what it will be like when they are 16
  15. My mum helps set up dropin centres and playgroups (I think for children in between the ages of 6 months up to 4 years), and says this is the main problem she sees.

    Small children (too small to be punished) get no attention from bad parents until they misbehave. Good behaviour is either unrewarded, or completely ignored.

    Those small children get older and take that mindset to school with them. You can see a continuation of this with juveniles (still ignored at home, still unrewarded, verbally or otherwise, for good behaviour) who get no attention until they do something like TWOC a car. At this point the child has large amounts of attention (Police officer, probation office, social worker, solicitor etc) that they otherwise would not have had.

    The problem sets in years before the child attends primary school.