Tech Wonderkids or wonderduds!

Is this system going to work in the long term?

  • Vote YES this system is working

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Vote NO lets go back to the old system and have experienced tradesman again

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
#1
I am struggling here.

New Techs have no practical skills at trade for 2nd line and it takes the whole first posting to get them to a reasonable standard. After this they are posted out to do a different job requiring a different set of trade skills at their next unit where their new boss has to start again and may as well have another class 3. Following a short posting here, he/she will be on their class one course and then they will go to another job where again they may as well be class 3s as they have no experience at trade again and then they may become Sgts therefore we have the blind training the even blinder.

It would be interesting to know other points of view on this
 
#2
doesitmatter
Thought id start you off mate.
Ah the SuperTech!
Its a way of fecking the Corps from the inside thats all.
Techs have always been hated by the Black Hand Gang, being even more sh1te this way makes it easier to hate you. :p
 
#3
<<<Techs have always been hated by the Black Hand Gang>>>

No they haven't!, There's always been a tongue in cheek p**s taking of techs by the Black Hand gang, but hate? I think not.
 
#4
Would have to agree with craftsmanx about the hate bit, we don't like them , we think they are a bunch of snivelling tossers, we don't rate them at being soldiers and we don't think they have many life skills but hate them we don't.

We have had to live with tech spankers thinking they are superior for years now and always will while they are held in high asteem by our lords and masters. They don't see things the way those on the shop floor do. They don't see techs being helped with every day tasks because they don't have the common sense the others may have. They don't see them wandering about with their thumb up their ARRSE and they certainly don't see their total lack of management and leadership skills.

How can a bloke leave trade training as a LCpl without having passed his basic equipment course. I don't mean that he has not attended one, but that he actually failed it after having resits!!!

I know !!!

He has to be a Tech Elect, thats how. Disgrace - one rule for the Techs and another for the black handers.
 
#6
Whilst I agree that tech promotion has never been right, pay 2000 however has screwed us so the promotion is now sadly required or there wont be any of us staying in - (why would you if you could do a much less mentally demanding black hand job for the same pay with much less time in training?)

You should consider this however - A short time ago someone had the bright idea of dispersing our beloved electricians. Who will do their work? Perhaps the VM who has always so scared of it? No, a young super tech will be thrown in who doesn't even know what his own trade is. Will he screw up - of course because no-one has taken the time to train him.

I guess it'll add amunition to the techs are useless argument but this time you will be right.

Perhaps tech trades are not so important now as long as the vehicle keeps driving but what happens when there are no spare radios, sights, radar etc....then the army will have to stop and look!!!!

I leave you with this thought. In 5 - 8 yrs most of the old style techs who have real skills will be gone. In their place will be mostly fitters who only know how to replace assemblies at best so when you are on Ops and there are is no spares support who will have the skills to get your unit fighting again?
 
#8
Preaching to the comverted geezer.

It won't be just the Techs that will be clueless in 5 - 8 years. Most black hand blokes coming out of the factory are a waste of space, and don't know how to apply basic principles to engineering problems.
 
#10
A_Mech said:
How can a bloke leave trade training as a LCpl without having passed his basic equipment course. I don't mean that he has not attended one, but that he actually failed it after having resits!!!

I know !!!

He has to be a Tech Elect, thats how. Disgrace - one rule for the Techs and another for the black handers.
*sigh*

Yep, unfortunately it's these people who give us an even worse name. To be honest it's shocking and should never be allowed.

Though the last thing you should think is that we're all in agreement with this sh1te. Only the tw@ts who have failed and still got their tape agree with it!
 
#11
Firstly, i am in the ideal position to comment on this so for once Im the horses mouth not horses arrse.

Basic technicians now do a phase called CEA at the end of their course which lets them get back onto fault finding and using their hands as well as teaching them workshop principles and skills such as camming up vehicles. Once finished they can be promoted and are either sent to their unit or stay to carry out a relevent equipment course to their next posting. There have been a few occasions where LCpl's have failed on the equipment course but this shouldn't be seen as them failing their basic course. To that end, the powers that be are looking at sending all technicians out into the field as Cfn until they have completed their necessary courses. Once this has been done they should, if recommended, be promoted with pay and seniority backdated to the time they leave SEAE.

The blanket statements that all techs hitting the field now are rubbish and that they dont have any common sense are misnomers. Have a long hard think about when you hit the field and think about how much learning and how many smacks across the head you took in the quest for "knowledge". I know I had a few.
 
#12
If failing the first equipment course they do in order to be a trained and useful Tech is not failing their basic course i don't know what is. I know they get their class 3 at trade before the equip course, but if they are not competent to work on real equipment what use are they and what can they be employed on?
Oh yeh, another untrained incompetent(or should that be uncompetent) REME soldier is what we really need in already busy 1st line units.
 
#13
sparky8 said:
Firstly, i am in the ideal position to comment on this so for once Im the horses mouth not horses arrse.

Basic technicians now do a phase called CEA at the end of their course which lets them get back onto fault finding and using their hands as well as teaching them workshop principles and skills such as camming up vehicles. Once finished they can be promoted and are either sent to their unit or stay to carry out a relevent equipment course to their next posting. There have been a few occasions where LCpl's have failed on the equipment course but this shouldn't be seen as them failing their basic course. To that end, the powers that be are looking at sending all technicians out into the field as Cfn until they have completed their necessary courses. Once this has been done they should, if recommended, be promoted with pay and seniority backdated to the time they leave SEAE.









The blanket statements that all techs hitting the field now are rubbish and that they dont have any common sense are misnomers. Have a long hard think about when you hit the field and think about how much learning and how many smacks across the head you took in the quest for "knowledge". I know I had a few.
I always found the best method for "educating " factory fresh techs was to put them on the ARV with hairy arsed Recy Mech.... Grumpy Gunfitter and monster "A "Mech..... if they didn't learn quick they probably weren't going to survive the experience any way , so their Tech skills were irrelevant !!!
Don't think we ever actually "lost" one but have seen one or two ejected over the back decks closely followed by tools Recy Mech, Gunfitter's 2lb Nylon Hammer & various A Mech accoutrements :lol:

Character building stuff indeed !!
 
#14
Er, the equipment course isnt part of their basic trade training therefore its not failing basic.
Look, im not advocating the fact that these guys deserve a tape if they can't pass but some courses such as CR2 are pretty tough and as such are a lot more demanding than basics, should a guy be denied his tape for failing that when a lesser ability tradesman passes and easier equipment course?
Obviously this is only a tech question as no one else ever fails a course and SEME is a breeding ground for SF troops
 
#15
This strikes me as one of those "It wasn't like this in my day..." threads. I'm sure I saw this debated in the Crafty Mag circa 1996 when, as a redarse myself, I read a letter from an old and bold ASM heading for retirement. He explained that in his many years he had always had to keep a close eye on 'the youth of today' coming through the system and thought it was getting worse. It was explained to him by someone older and bolder that this had always been the case and the only solution was to take a step back and consider just how great he was at his first unit.

Regardless of trade, nobody turns up as a perfect tradesman at their first unit (although I wasn't far off). The real issue is making sure your new boys and girls don't turn up as next to usless at their next unit. In the two years you have them you have the opportunity to develop and mold the future of the corps (as happened at your first unit?). Or you can slate them and motivate them to get out. And why not, we'll be far better off without them and we can cherry pick class one tradesmen from civvy street...

I'm grateful to all who 'educated' me on along my career path. And I'm glad they didn't write me off because of all the fuckups I made in my first, well, week really! And they saw through the fact that I was a fresh faced Tech Wunderspudgun and might be able to contribute at some stage.

doesitmatter said:
I leave you with this thought. In 5 - 8 yrs most of the old style techs who have real skills will be gone. In their place will be mostly fitters who only know how to replace assemblies at best so when you are on Ops and there are is no spares support who will have the skills to get your unit fighting again?
Pull your finger out and educate the young un's. Try and engender that 'how does it work' curiosity in your subordinates. As Sparky says, they do get fault finding refreshers but it's not the same thing. You can't blame the trade schools for that one, they've got a syllabus to teach with limited resources.

I say this from the comfort of a staff job and look forward to trying to implement my words when I return to the field force. Tell me it isn't all that bad out there guys!
 
#16
soldier-w said:
This strikes me as one of those "It wasn't like this in my day..." threads. I'm sure I saw this debated in the Crafty Mag circa 1996 when, as a redarse myself, I read a letter from an old and bold ASM heading for retirement. He explained that in his many years he had always had to keep a close eye on 'the youth of today' coming through the system and thought it was getting worse. It was explained to him by someone older and bolder that this had always been the case and the only solution was to take a step back and consider just how great he was at his first unit.

Regardless of trade, nobody turns up as a perfect tradesman at their first unit (although I wasn't far off). The real issue is making sure your new boys and girls don't turn up as next to usless at their next unit. In the two years you have them you have the opportunity to develop and mold the future of the corps (as happened at your first unit?). Or you can slate them and motivate them to get out. And why not, we'll be far better off without them and we can cherry pick class one tradesmen from civvy street...

I'm grateful to all who 'educated' me on along my career path. And I'm glad they didn't write me off because of all the fuckups I made in my first, well, week really! And they saw through the fact that I was a fresh faced Tech Wunderspudgun and might be able to contribute at some stage.

doesitmatter said:
I leave you with this thought. In 5 - 8 yrs most of the old style techs who have real skills will be gone. In their place will be mostly fitters who only know how to replace assemblies at best so when you are on Ops and there are is no spares support who will have the skills to get your unit fighting again?
Pull your finger out and educate the young un's. Try and engender that 'how does it work' curiosity in your subordinates. As Sparky says, they do get fault finding refreshers but it's not the same thing. You can't blame the trade schools for that one, they've got a syllabus to teach with limited resources.

I say this from the comfort of a staff job and look forward to trying to implement my words when I return to the field force. Tell me it isn't all that bad out there guys!
Nice one mate, please cut and paste into anywhere you fancy on the sigs forum.
 
#17
always worked for me show em the kit most of em are dying to learn.

Me and one or 2 others turned a group of class 3 no nothings into a good competant team. Unfortunatly are seniors weren't up to there job and when we all got posted around the same time they all signed off because of the seniors

But we had everything in that group from ten year retraders to ghanian and a welsh half wit who'd robbed a posty office when he was 14 every single one of them became good at some aspect of their job to a level. The ghanan lad got a CO's mention after one exercise for his work ethic and capabilties after only 6 months in unit. And it was because he was a good tech and a hard worker and not the colour of his skin i pleased to say.

So it can be done but you have to be committed to help the new lads learn . I can't say I'm fan of the new scheme in either your corps or mine but it won't change in the new future so we have to make do and I just wanted to prove it can be made to work.
 
#18
Well said soldier w, much more eloquent than I could ever put it. Agree with you 100%
 
#19
Sparky8 it's not just a tech issue. Tradesmen do fail equipment courses at SEME, however they are not rewarded with keeping an ill gained LCpl tape.

As i understand it the Tech role are promoted to LCpl on completion of the basic course as it is seen as very acedemic and the system needs to reward hard work. I've sort of come to terms with that even though i don't agree.
However these failures who manage to keep the Promotion even though they are not up to the same standard as the rest of the tradesmen and are not capable or competent enough to do their job are the problem.

I don't care who they are if they are not trained they are no good and a drain on resourses. We have one in our unit and he is a right royal pain in the arrse. Not interested, untrustworthy and incompetent. Because some young orrficer cocked up his case in SEAE he has escaped with his tape and is dragging the reputation of his section down. You can only help those who want to be helped, unfortunately his type are given too much space and allowed to crack on for too long.
I have seen and been involved in bringing on inexperienced guys in the past and its great to see them when they have sorted themselves out. However as i said before, you can only help them if they are interested in being helped which unfortunately too many are not.
 
#20
Those tech wonderduds were shown a thing or two today at the REME 6's. The whole tech school could only manage to reach the semi-final in the plate and that was there 'C' team or maybe there 'X' team.
 

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