Teach me about Buffalo shirt

[Effendi]

Good stuff @Effendi

I didn't really know that, I guess whatever DWR is, is improving the time it takes for water to sit on the surface?

I listened to Craigs talks on pure water and its properties and had the properties demonstrated so I am assuming some things.....commonsense application of things told and observed.

I would assume that DWR is a function of surface tension of water in conjunction with the porosity of the fabric upon which it is deposited and any contamination of the fabric. For example: If you drop water onto a plastic bag it will sit there unitl it evaporates and if you drop water onto a netting fabric it will drop through to whatever is underneath. Breathable garments being somewhere in between those two extremes - needing to be porous enough to allow internal moisture out, but also with small enough pores to keep moisture out.

Because water needs contamination (dirt) to stay stable any grub on the fabric will encourage the nice clean purified rain to latch onto it, therefore soaking more readily into the fabric.

One of the demo's I watched to show how clean filtered/purified water is in comparison to tap water is to put a few drops of each on a perfectly clean sheet of mirrored glass. The water evaporates and the tap water leaves behind tiny, but visible, rings, wheras the purified water leaves behind no marks whatsoever.

So if the clothing is clean and has a functioning DWR the rain will sit on it until it evaporates - not allowing for the Brecon or Dartmoor levels of rain here. Any contaminants and the water will find them and latch on soaking into the fabric.

 

[smallbrownprivates]

Has anyone used one of the buffalo sleeping bags?

Yes - had the single one rather than the double one and it was excellent.

Very pissed off when it got nicked at NSG

 

[foxtrot40]

Like Effendi I use a "green" cleaning product and have done so for years with no problems in the garment's performance. Slightly off topic, I use neat Nikwax TX Direct on both leather and fabric boots to great effect. Just make sure the boots are completely wet through thus allowing the proofer to soak in.

 

[Zemlyak]

I listened to Craigs talks on pure water and its properties and had the properties demonstrated so I am assuming some things.....commonsense application of things told and observed.

I would assume that DWR is a function of surface tension of water in conjunction with the porosity of the fabric upon which it is deposited and any contamination of the fabric. For example: If you drop water onto a plastic bag it will sit there unitl it evaporates and if you drop water onto a netting fabric it will drop through to whatever is underneath. Breathable garments being somewhere in between those two extremes - needing to be porous enough to allow internal moisture out, but also with small enough pores to keep moisture out.

Because water needs contamination (dirt) to stay stable any grub on the fabric will encourage the nice clean purified rain to latch onto it, therefore soaking more readily into the fabric.

One of the demo's I watched to show how clean filtered/purified water is in comparison to tap water is to put a few drops of each on a perfectly clean sheet of mirrored glass. The water evaporates and the tap water leaves behind tiny, but visible, rings, wheras the purified water leaves behind no marks whatsoever.

So if the clothing is clean and has a functioning DWR the rain will sit on it until it evaporates - not allowing for the Brecon or Dartmoor levels of rain here. Any contaminants and the water will find them and latch on soaking into the fabric.

I'm not a chemist too. So willing to be shot down.

However, the way I understand it is that, it's not just that water is unstable, any water is attracted to or attracts 'stuff' to it due to 'attraction' at the molecular level. For instance, if you look at water in a glass tube, the edges of it are 'pulled up' against the sides of it. Or if you get two sheets of glass and spray them with water, and put them together face to face they'll 'stick'. As my old materials lecturer said, water would be a good glue if only it didn't evaporate.

And a characteristic of this 'attraction' is it being a solvent for some minerals such as salt. But this will reach a saturation point when it can't dissolve any more so for instance you get undisolved salt in the bottom of a glass if you overlaod the water.

Tap, rain and sea water has already had 'stuff' attracted or latched on to its molecules. Pure water hasn't so is better at attracting 'stuff'.

As for DWR, and any other water proofing, the way I understand it is that this is a treatment of the material or surface by impregnating the fibres with a 'hydrophobic' material, ie stops them 'wetting'. This is what causes the water beading since the water molecules are 'repelled'. Wax or oils for instance are naturally hydrophobic and Nikwax and similar are wash in 'hydrophobic' treatments. Using normal detergents breaks down the coating or makes it less effective. Also it can leave a residue so if you try to waterproof the material aftewards it may not work.

 

[Hoppus]

Thanks for this post, i ended up going to for a buffalo and a Arktis mammoth haha

oh and asked Fortis if they Arktis, and Arktis if they were Fortis ect.
They are not the same... Fortis just copied their designs apparently.

 

[CrapSpy]

I bought my Buffalo in 1990. Still going strong, and I never followed the washing instructions!

 

[Cutaway]

I bought my Buffalo in 1990. Still going strong, and I never followed the washing instructions!

Think mine's seven, maybe eight, years older. Model with two Velcro tabs on the kangaroo pocket.
Most of my kit gets treated hard, the Buff possibly like utter kak, but like yours still working fine.
Also acquired a later model with bells & whistles, probably expensive but it fell ff the back of an army.

 

[thegimp]

An alternative worth looking at is a Swanndri - wool felt which is aslo warm when wet...!

Made in NZ and still available..

Chalk and cheese.

I've had 3 swanndris, none of them had any functionality in the league of my buffalo and montanes. The is some sort of bush craft old school,romanticism about them but apart from not melting sat next to a roaring fire they are heavy, even heavier when wet, don't keep out the wind very well and have a ridiculous sizing and over generous cut/tailor

Eta the moths had all three of them in my damp old country mansion, geet big oles

 

[thegimp]

Oh and the montane extreme is too bulky and too hot

 

[blonde_guy]

Sorry to resurrect the thread....

I do a lot of hill walking with a day sack - would a Buffalo be warm enough for the cold winter but also light enough when vented for the spring?

Does it stay warm when static?

I currently wear a helly hansen baselayer with other layering combos but find the Helly gets soaked in sweat and can be quite cool, especially on the back where the daysack has been.

 

[Kitmarlowe]

Sorry to resurrect the thread....

I do a lot of hill walking with a day sack - would a Buffalo be warm enough for the cold winter but also light enough when vented for the spring?

Does it stay warm when static?

I currently wear a helly hansen baselayer with other layering combos but find the Helly gets soaked in sweat and can be quite cool, especially on the back where the daysack has been.

It's my preferred choice of attire in the Peak District, Buffalo shirt over a long sleeved wicking top and a waterproof coat over that if it rains. Keeps me warm enough.

 

[wheel]

Sorry to resurrect the thread....

I do a lot of hill walking with a day sack - would a Buffalo be warm enough for the cold winter but also light enough when vented for the spring?

Does it stay warm when static?

I currently wear a helly hansen baselayer with other layering combos but find the Helly gets soaked in sweat and can be quite cool, especially on the back where the daysack has been.

What shirt is it ? they make several types.

 

[wheel]

It's my preferred choice of attire in the Peak District, Buffalo shirt over a long sleeved wicking top and a waterproof coat over that if it rains. Keeps me warm enough.

Buffalo are designed to be worn next to the skin otherwise they do not function correctly.

 

[blonde_guy]

What shirt is it ? they make several types.

Thinking of investing in the Super 6

 

[Cutaway]

It's excellent kit, but what's the price difference between that and the regular Mountain Shirt these days ?

 

[fraudstar]

Buffalo shirts mountain/special 6 are excellent from now to about March. I find them pretty warm (and I feel the cold), even when wet. This means I normally carry a Helly Hansen top I can slip on instead if doing something very arduous.

I wore mine all last winter in Brecon and rarely felt cold.

I don't find them that warm when static though. They are awesome to put on after being wet/cold for a while like after a tab or when stopping for lunch. The pile lining is very comforting.

 

[Himmler74]

It's excellent kit, but what's the price difference between that and the regular Mountain Shirt these days ?

Not worth worrying about.

 

[Gravelbelly]

Buffalo shirts mountain/special 6 are excellent from now to about March.

I dragged my now-26-year-old Buffalo shirt out of the cupboard to help out on a DofE training expedition a couple of weeks back. Fortunately, it still fitted just, and was the business. Better, because it rained, and it was just as comfy as I remembered - and was all dried out twenty minutes after the rain went away.

Regarding @Bravo_Bravo - yes, you will sweat if you've got webbing / a rucksack on; but so what. You'll sweat under the rucksack regardless. It was just the job for exercises at Garelochhead all year round (with just the windproof smock over the top to keep the RSM happy, obviously )

 

[Cutaway]

Not worth worrying about.

What's that in decimal currency ?

 

[Himmler74]

What's that in decimal currency ?

7.62mm