Taxpayer to hold majority stake in Lloyds Bank

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by frenchperson, Mar 7, 2009.

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  1. Lloyds shareholders

    6.7%
  2. Labour Government

    60.0%
  3. Lloyds bank bosses

    26.7%
  4. Robert Peston

    6.7%

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  1. Greedy Lloyds shareholders (96% of whom voted FOR the takeover of HBOS in January) are blaming Lloyds bank bosses for doing this!! and for the government's takeover of the bank - which will almost certainly end up in Nationalisation (and the end of the greedy shareholders hopefully :D )

    Every cloud has a silver lining....

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7927415.stm
     
  2. diplomat

    diplomat War Hero Book Reviewer

    The problem is that all those shareholders that voted in favour were the major financial institutions (pension funds etc) in the City. I don't think that very many individual shareholders voted in favour as they didn't trust what they were being told.

    Lloyds must be partially to blame for not doing effective due diligence on HBOS, but I would love to know what 'sweetners' were allowed or offered by the government to trigger this takeover.
     
  3. Go back to the source.

    Q. Why did HBOS have to be saved at all costs?

    A. Another (Scottish) bank in deep trouble

    Q. Why did Lloyds agree to buy it pretty much sight unseen?

    A. One, Brown, G. whispered in the ear of the Chairman

    Q.Who lent on them to push on and made all sorts of promises?

    A. See above

    Q. When did all this start to crack off?

    A. In the run up to the Glenrothes bye election

    Q. What would have happened if HBOS had failed, apart from the obvious fiscal disaster?

    A Risk of massive job losses in Scotland, oddly enough in and around Glenrothes. Labour would most likely have lost bye election and one Brown, G. would have been booted.

    Q. So the 3000 local jobs created by the much trumpeted but now seriously delayed and most likely never to be seen Aircraft Carrier contracts mattered a lot then?

    A. Oh yes.

    Q. Does that not make the Glenrothes bye election the cause of a vast and utterly futile waste of public money just to save the Prime Minister?

    A Have a Nobel Prize.
     
  4. Lloyds had spent about 2-3 years trying to take over HBOS, each time they were knocked back due to competition laws, they used the crisis to get round this and in the end it ended up blowing up in their faces.

    The problem for me is that so many of these things occured, RBS have been crippled by their takeover of ABN AMRO and the Bank Of America links, others have had the same problems yet these companies were all meant to be making record profits, had huge loan books and were also meant to have money in reserve, so either they had one seriously bad year where the entire market shifted the wrong way and wiped out 10 years of profits and progress or there's been a lot of fraud going on, i think i know which one is more likely.

    The big question for me, why has there been no arrests or trials, the magnitude of this fraud has never been seen before, we're talking about trillions of pounds that has disappeared, this isn't just one or two people, this is the entire industry, yet some guy who defrauds the government out of a little tax or benefits would more than likely get jail time, these bankers who have made millions and defrauded the country end up with knighthoods :evil:
     
  5. Trans-sane

    Trans-sane LE Book Reviewer

    Hammer-nail interface = 99%+. Ultimately, human nature being what it is, banks WILL be greedy. They are not the sort of institution that attracts the altruistic sort, and even the altruistic sort will have a greedy streak... Generally humand beings will push the limits of any constraints and rules placed around them in the interests of personal "profit"- evidenced by numerous things from drinking too much, eating to much red meat all the way to paedophiles raping kids and Nick Leeson bringing down Barrings in '95.

    Another little detail about human nature with respect to rules, barriers etc... When someone is testing things in small ways and then the barriers are pulled back giving them more room to manouver to their apparent advantage, they will push the barriers and constraints harder and harder next time.

    Questions for thoses that can answer:-

    How many times has the regulation of the financial system been relaxed since 1997? When and in what manner did these de-regulations take place?

    From 1997 to the bubble visibly bursting in late 2007, how many individuals and institutions linked to the financial sector were investigated for misconduct, fraud or other dodginess? What were the punishments and sanctions handed out? When were these investigations begun/concluded?

    If a deep and thorough analysis is made, I suspect the folowing patterns can at least be inferred if not out-right proven:-

    1/ De-regualtion leads to greater room to manouver
    2/ Manouvering space hits its limits, probing of the rules leads to a small number of bankers being sanctioned
    3/ A further layer of de-regulation occurs
    4/ The bankers that didn't get caught are more agressive in testing the restrictions placed around them
    5/ Redo from start until current economic woes are reached...

    It can be argued that the samebehavior patterns lead to the outbreak of WWII. Hitler pushed the boundries and no one was willing to bring him to task firmly until it was too late... Chamberlain is often critised as not taking decisive action in time- there are a lot of factors why I know. But would the BLUFF of decisive action early on been enough to reign in Hitler's ambitions? I propose that our dear Leader, Winky McFucknut (so called Iron Chancellor...) is the Chamberlain of the current situation. Only an idiot would base his small business budgets on debt for more than a couple of years. And that only when necessary to buy new equipment, tools and facilities while expanding the business. Only the heir to the throne of the Kingdom of Idiots would base an enitre national economy on the same system for 11 years!!! Cyclops opted for the quick payoff from the banks at the expense of everything else including his much touted "prudence". He was blind to the banks massive new profits being based on the tissue of lies that was debt.

    Yet another question. Would any of you take out a loanfrom a bank for 6 months, and then go to a casino every day with the money? Would you then bet half on red and half on black at the roulette table? Would you ever expect to be able to pay off the debt after 6 months and still have enough of a profit to live on for those six months? The odds are vanishingly unlikely. But that appears to be what a lot of the investment banks have done.

    I am labouring the point, AND mangling the analogies I have constructed. But hey. Its early on a Saturday morning after a late night...