Taxation Post BUdget

#1
I have been watching the budget with interest - especially the bit about joining Income tax and National Insurance - could be a dangerous conjunction for pensioners who at present dont pay NI.

However below is HMG forcast on Tax and NI contribution totals for the next two years. Note it goes up a great deal in April for some and reduces a little in 2012-2013. Will give you an idea of how the changes to the tax affects you.
 

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#2
I think GO said that it would not apply to pensioners,and it's only a cross party consultation idea,at the moment.
Given that these can go on for years,I might well be dead before they get around to doing it,result. 8)
 
#3
He said that the joining of the two (which was done by Labour in the early 2000s anyway) was a proposal which would only included earned income and that pensions and savings income would not be affected.
 
#4
He said that the joining of the two (which was done by Labour in the early 2000s anyway) was a proposal which would only included earned income and that pensions and savings income would not be affected.

Got to be a good idea overall merging the two, there must be a huge amount of job duplication at the TAX and NI offices, and lets face it, NI no longer really pays for healthcare or pensions, same as road tax never gets spent on the roads.

Gordon would never have approved this as it would have added clarity to taxation.
 
#5
Being the sad B'stard that I am, I downloaded the red book which the Governement are selling at £45 - bit silly when you can download it for free. But below are the promises out of the book, the first line is a little unusual, in that they are increasing the personal allowance for under 65's - what about the over 65's? do they/we not get it? - still have a year to go, but I do like to sort out whats what early enough
 

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FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#6
Anything which gets rid of the inherent bureaucratic dishonesty, much cherished by McRuin, of pretending that NI is anything other than an income tax should be welcomed.
 
#7
Anything which gets rid of the inherent bureaucratic dishonesty, much cherished by McRuin, of pretending that NI is anything other than an income tax should be welcomed.
Forgive me for my sceptisism - but after years of taxation under my belt, it is very very rare that any government finds a way to reduce the amount we pay in tax, if its not direct then its indirect taxation that goes up, but I am willing to give this lot a chance, after all - at their worst they must be a 1000% better than Broon. - The again I remember basic rates of income tax at 35% (under a predecessor of broon) and Maggie was one of those that managed to cut it, so although people have short memories - it may not be too difficult to propose basic tax at 32% instead of 20% if NI dissapears - after all when basic rate of taxation was 35% we still had to pay 9% NI on top of that.
 
#8
Up until about 2003 (can't remember the exact year) employers had to submit a monthly payment showing tax and NI as separate payments. This then stopped and just the total was paid and the difference wasn't shown until the end of year returns. The two different departments handling NI and tax merged into one as the HMRC at the same time. I think this was when the government finally admitted NI was just another income tax.
Income on which tax is paid by the over 65s and over 75s comes under the age related allowance which is separate from the personal allowance as shown in that example. The personal allowance for this coming year is £7475 (up £1000) and the over 65 age related allowance is £9940 (only up £450) and over 75 is £10,090 (also up £450).
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#9
Forgive me for my sceptisism - but after years of taxation under my belt, it is very very rare that any government finds a way to reduce the amount we pay in tax, if its not direct then its indirect taxation that goes up, but I am willing to give this lot a chance, after all - at their worst they must be a 1000% better than Broon. - The again I remember basic rates of income tax at 35% (under a predecessor of broon) and Maggie was one of those that managed to cut it, so although people have short memories - it may not be too difficult to propose basic tax at 32% instead of 20% if NI dissapears - after all when basic rate of taxation was 35% we still had to pay 9% NI on top of that.
My point is not about overall tax take, my point is about taxation doing what it says on the tin - I'm fed up with clever semantic fixes designed to mislead and I'm happy to see the back of even one of them.
 
#10
Income on which tax is paid by the over 65s and over 75s comes under the age related allowance which is separate from the personal allowance as shown in that example. The personal allowance for this coming year is £7475 (up £1000) and the over 65 age related allowance is £9940 (only up £450) and over 75 is £10,090 (also up £450).
It always looks good until you read the small print - the £9940 is only good until you earn over a ceiling - and I cant be bothered looking it up but its around £21-£22K - after that you lose £1.00 of your allowance for every £2.00 Earned. so basically once you earn £4930 on top of the threshold (ie, say £27K) you are back to the normal under 65 allowance of £7475 .. good innit!
 
#11
I don't give a shit as long as they haven't put any more money into "looking after our children",etc.

Some whinger on the telly this morning,going on about how the public sector pay freeze over the last 2 years,and the cut in child benefit,has affected their lives,also going on about the price of fuel,what is the twat running,an old VW Beetle,and an original VW bus,I'm not ****ing surprised his motoring costs him a bit,bite the bullet mate,try buying a fuel efficient car,twat.
 
#12
Now RoofRat - dont sit on the fence and prevaricate - tell it how it is :)
 
#13
It was actually a pretty good budget overall. Obviously, the simpering little twat was never going to admit that the gov cuts were offestting growth in the private sector. So you had to take that as a given. Once you get beyond that, it was all in all fair (I think). The corporation tax rate move means that we will have the lowest tax rates in the G7. Now, given that no big companies pay anything near the ACTUAL corporation tax rate anyway, you have to wonder what difference it will make to them. I think Barclays effective rate was somewhere down below 5% from memory (can't be arrsed checking). The other changes are just nips and tucks. There was no real reduction in fuel duty - the tax on oil and gas companies will simply come back to us by them putting their prices up to recoup that amount - so we will still feel the increase, but the government can blame the oil companies. The one thing I would have liked to see would be a real move towards the £10k minimum tax rate at the bottom. Truth be told, they will never make it there, which is a shame. As soon as there is some spare cash - it will go to reducing the 50% rate at the top instead.

Whilst from a purely fiscal / economic point of view I think this is a decent budget, from a social and fairness point of view - this budget and the future ones will do nothing to help the working man. Don't ever think it will.

Anyway, been busy - but thought I would share my quick views.
 
#14
It was actually a pretty good budget overall. Obviously, the simpering little twat was never going to admit that the gov cuts were offestting growth in the private sector. So you had to take that as a given. Once you get beyond that, it was all in all fair (I think). The corporation tax rate move means that we will have the lowest tax rates in the G7. Now, given that no big companies pay anything near the ACTUAL corporation tax rate anyway, you have to wonder what difference it will make to them. I think Barclays effective rate was somewhere down below 5% from memory (can't be arrsed checking). The other changes are just nips and tucks. There was no real reduction in fuel duty - the tax on oil and gas companies will simply come back to us by them putting their prices up to recoup that amount - so we will still feel the increase, but the government can blame the oil companies. The one thing I would have liked to see would be a real move towards the £10k minimum tax rate at the bottom. Truth be told, they will never make it there, which is a shame. As soon as there is some spare cash - it will go to reducing the 50% rate at the top instead.

Whilst from a purely fiscal / economic point of view I think this is a decent budget, from a social and fairness point of view - this budget and the future ones will do nothing to help the working man. Don't ever think it will.

Anyway, been busy - but thought I would share my quick views.

Really? The 10K personal allowance is a lot closer now than it ever was under the previous administration, at least its been announced to get it over £8K by April 2012! The intention was announced at the "emergency budget" last year to try to get a £10K personal allowance by the end of the current 5 year term.
 
#15
Really? The 10K personal allowance is a lot closer now than it ever was under the previous administration, at least its been announced to get it over £8K by April 2012! The intention was announced at the "emergency budget" last year to try to get a £10K personal allowance by the end of the current 5 year term.
I'd be surprised if that doesn't come to fruition. It's a definite vote winner, and doesn't actually cost a huge amount - as the vast majority of it is pumped straight back into the economy anyway.
 
#17
"I'd be surprised if that doesn't come to fruition. It's a definite vote winner, and doesn't actually cost a huge amount - as the vast majority of it is pumped straight back into the economy anyway."

Yes, I can't see anyone with less then 10K saving any money, all to the economy.

john
 
#18
As I am looking to retire in the next 3 years (i reach actual retirement age next year but will probably keep going for a year or two after that) raising the personal allowance for under 65's to £10K will be good news as long as he raises the over 65 allowance commensurate, he has not done so this time - if he keeps on as he is doing, there will only be a few bob between under and over 65 rates, which will NOT be good for pensioners - I shall keep my eye on it.
 
#19
What would you do...?
What would I do? In what circumstances? The current ones? My pragmatic or preferred solution? Solely focussed on the goal of social fairness? Or bearing in mind the wider structural consequences of trying to improve social fairness?

I would love to answer, but if I stumbled into that without knowing the question fully, I would open myself to attack from every side on every minor point.

What - you think I haven't been on this site before?
 
#20
Really? The 10K personal allowance is a lot closer now than it ever was under the previous administration, at least its been announced to get it over £8K by April 2012! The intention was announced at the "emergency budget" last year to try to get a £10K personal allowance by the end of the current 5 year term.
I hope you are right. But if it comes down to it, and there was some cash to spare in tax giveaways - do you think this government would first remove the 50% rate OR reaching the 10k personal allowance? Just curious, I am biased, so my view could be wrong. I am assuming you are a tory by the immediate jump to the defence of the current administration - so I would like to know your view.
 
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