Tax increases to pay for NHS & Social Care

I remember I once broke my Grans leg. She was 85, refused to see a doctor after 18 hours.

That was the second time she went into hospital her entire life. (The third was when she's passed away)

There wasn't no NHS when she grew up. They understood the benefit.

But whenever anything is free at source, people forget the cost.
Yup, I missed out on the NHS when I was born, I was 12 years old when I first went into hospital, strange place.
 
people forget the cost.
well yers, they also forget that if the cost equated to actual production there is no equivalent. So if you're a base earning CS on say 30 K and a nurse in on 32-35K and they're both paying basic rate one cancels the other out. Net cost zero. You see a Surgeon on 100K a year plus and the other is a child with no Income how do you account for that? That's the problem for the bean counters. Now the child will ( hopefully have all it's life) could have that tagged on to their later tax bill, the aged have paid what they've been asked to pay and the bean counters got that wrong.
 
well yers, they also forget that if the cost equated to actual production there is no equivalent. So if you're a base earning CS on say 30 K and a nurse in on 32-35K and they're both paying basic rate one cancels the other out. Net cost zero. You see a Surgeon on 100K a year plus and the other is a child with no Income how do you account for that? That's the problem for the bean counters. Now the child will ( hopefully have all it's life) could have that tagged on to their later tax bill, the aged have paid what they've been asked to pay and the bean counters got that wrong.
Quite.

I'm left to guess how many £ Trillions....millions of implied leeches / fatcat retired "BabyBoomer" former wage-slavers pumped into successive Exchequers over 4 decades plus. Not their/my fault we lived through some of the best years of full employment, when ships made of British steel slid out of yards, coal mines ran 24/7, and British engineering actually meant something by employing whole towns and cities.
All gone..pretty much.

Through thick and thin from early 70's into the 2000's amid good times and bad (some dreadful) people of my age took the opportunity to invest in our futures, preferring not to be a burden on society.
Today many like myself & SWMBO are experiencing the boomerang rug rats in their late 20's & 30's returning to the household ( Jesus H Christ!) for a variety of reasons from finishing educations, job loss whatever with the expectations that the Bank of Mum & Dad will open it's coffers again. In our case, our son is leaving The Mob next year but has saved like a good 'un for ten years of his service and will get his own place.
Because...we told him to!

Do I rail against being taxed on my State Pension that I worked for over 48 years as I will be until death? Actually no and neither does SWMBO. We genuinely don't mind doing our bit pumping cash back into "The System" We do object to some of the wholesale squandering that we all know about here.
I do wish (some) people would take a more balanced & informed view about what others are perfectly entitled to on both a moral and legislative basis. Bottom line is, we are generally no bother to anyone as we can afford not to be. The likes of us tend to pay our full council tax, income tax, dental bills, and every other tax.
 
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Quite.

I'm left to guess how many £ Trillions....millions of implied leeches / fatcat retired "BabyBoomer" former wage-slavers pumped into successive Exchequers over 4 decades plus. Not their/my fault we lived through some of the best years of full employment, when ships made of British steel slid out of yards, coal mines ran 24/7, and British engineering actually meant something by employing whole towns and cities.
All gone..pretty much.

Through thick and thin from early 70's into the 2000's amid good times and bad (some dreadful) people of my age took the opportunity to invest in our futures, preferring not to be a burden on society.
Today many like myself & SWMBO are experiencing the boomerang rug rats in their late 20's & 30's returning to the household ( Jesus H Christ!) for a variety of reasons from finishing educations, job loss whatever with the expectations that the Bank of Mum & Dad will open it's coffers again. In our case, our son is leaving The Mob next year but has saved like a good 'un for ten years of his service and will get his own place.
Because...we told him to!

Do I rail against being taxed on my State Pension that I worked for over 48 years as I will be until death? Actually no and neither does SWMBO. We genuinely don't mind doing our bit pumping cash back into "The System" We do object to some of the wholesale squandering that we all know about here.
I do wish (some) people would take a more balanced & informed view about what others are perfectly entitled to on both a moral and legislative basis. Bottom line is, we are generally no bother to anyone as we can afford not to be. The likes of us tend to pay our full council tax, income tax, dental bills, and every other tax.
Nor does it take into account that many so called boomers were never paid that much. If wer'e talking equal pay, as I discovered later on my Equivalents were paid 10k a year more, so if they want tax me more, I'll claim 30 years back pay
 

MrBane

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When I came out of hospital last month I was advised to by a prescription season ticket. Wife paid under 40 squid for three months, (I don't plan on been ill any longer) first prescription would have been 43 ish quid. I still won't take anything I can buy over the counter.
Same as me. I go on the basis that if it's so common I can buy it over the counter, then I don't need it and won't take it.

Might cause a problem for me if I maintain this policy when clap cream starts getting sold in Boots but hey-ho.
 
There will never ever be enough money for the NHS. If you quadrupled the money overnight, that would then fund even greater demand and expectation on the NHS, so it would run out of money again fairly quickly.

The answer isn't one of finance, it's of structure and how that's managed. The answer is relatively easy, but it would require a massive change which would be resisted by almost everyone and also a significant change in how the NHS is used by the public.

And 2 things are sure when it comes to the NHS.
1. They don't do change
2. To change the NHS in this way, is political suicide for the government of the day.
I agree with your post.
This reminded me of "Can Gerry Robinson Fix the NHS?"
Can Gerry Robinson Fix the NHS? - Wikipedia
 
NHS Spending is, according to this, £181Bn per annum if you include Personal Social Services. That's damn near £500M per day. Yer foreign aid budget would therefore fund the NHS for approximately three and a half weeks.

Unconstrained demand - primarily through an ageing population that requires ever more expensive treatments - is hard to reconcile with any sort of budget. There will NEVER be enough money to fund it in the current construct.

Very definitely time for a real debate - sans moonhowling about privatisation - about how we fund the required level of care.
What's the detail behind personal social services? What does it encompass
 
Pointlessly expensive, too. We gave up charging for prescriptions because we were spending more collecting charges than we made from them.
It seems a bit bent up thatbpeople will take a prescription despite it being cheaper to over the Counter it.

Mega culpa. Studies/review show that to get some one (the clinical process) with my condition to the drugs I'm on costs on average 150 grand to the NHS. (158 to be exact)

Expensive drugs versus palliative care and other drugs

Study





However I wonder whether side stepping six years of cheap drugs and going for the gold standard wouldn't be a cheaper option......if the drugs were acceptably priced.

Big pharma is wringing the tit of the NHS and is a rapacious ******* machine

I'm suspicious of hunt and the jackal in the room (privatisation) you can call it moon howling if you want but don't deny that it's there, it's the biggest available industry that hasn't' been milked and TBH it's getting stuck in already

Personally I'm a neo -Malthusian. Population growth is the problem and that won't stop because captitalism needs its fodder and ******* retards seem to think it's their right to breed and right to be supported Capitalism requires more scalps to float.

Old people, should we treat 90 year olds with cancer aggressively and expensively, or should we draw a line in the sand. Quality of life versus expense?

I don't know but I'll be not for rescus if I ever get ill

My politics are floating between socialism and soylent green

Bearing in mind I've been on trains for 6 hours accompanied by an eight pack of 1664
 
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It seems a bit bent up thatbpeople will take a prescription despite it being cheaper to over the Counter it.

Mega culpa. Studies/review show that to get some one (the clinical process) with my condition to the drugs I'm on costs on average 150 grand to the NHS. (158 to be exact)

Expensive drugs versus palliative care and other drugs

Study





However I wonder whether side stepping six years of cheap drugs and going for the gold standard wouldn't be a cheaper option......if the drugs were acceptably priced.

Big pharma is wringing the tit of the NHS and is a rapacious ******* machine

I'm suspicious of hunt and the jackal in the room (privatisation) you can call it moon howling if you want but don't deny that it's there, it's the biggest available industry that hasn't' been milked and TBH it's getting stuck in already

Personally I'm a neo -Malthusian. Population growth is the problem and that won't stop because captitalism needs its fodder and ******* retards seem to think it's their right to breed and right to be supported Capitalism requires more scalps to float.

Old people, should we treat 90 year olds with cancer aggressively and expensively, or should we draw a line in the sand. Quality of life versus expense?

I don't know but I'll be not for rescus if I ever get ill

My politics are floating between socialism and soylent green

Bearing in mind I've been on trains for 6 hours accompanied by an eight pack of 1664
I was going to “like” this until your last line.

A. Lightweight

B. Lager drinker


C. French lager drinker.
 
There is absolutely no need for any tax rises to support the NHS. What is desperately needed is a consensus on exactly what the NHS should be providing, fixing a budget to cater for it, then make it operate within the set parameters. If they run out of money they cut treatments and hang those responsible out to dry irrespective of whether they're fat cats, doctors or Nurses.

We have to live within our means, it's about time the NHS did too.
 
Don`t forget that extra has been added to the Council Tax for the past 2 years, Social Care Levy,

This is what was written about when it was first introduced

will be allowed to rise faster than expected by about £46 a year for an average home to bail out struggling social care services for the elderly and vulnerable in England, Sajid Javid, the communities secretary, has said.
Under the plans, councils will be able to raise an extra 3% from their local population this year and 3% next year to fund social care, bringing forward planned increases of 2% a year.

Archie
 
There is absolutely no need for any tax rises to support the NHS. What is desperately needed is a consensus on exactly what the NHS should be providing, fixing a budget to cater for it, then make it operate within the set parameters. If they run out of money they cut treatments and hang those responsible out to dry irrespective of whether they're fat cats, doctors or Nurses.

We have to live within our means, it's about time the NHS did too.

Ages ago I dated a hospital consultant. I chatted to her about the shortages in the NHS; she described very clearly how, at her hospital at least, no-one was turned away for treatment, and it was rare - if ever - that costs incurred were pursued from foreign nationals. Simply put, the mechanism exists to do so, but no one ever used it.

She came out once with the line "What do you expect us to do - turn people away"? "Too f***ing right" was my reply. "You are there to treat the patient, not to decide on the appropriation of public resource".

Impressed, she wasn't.
 
Ages ago I dated a hospital consultant. I chatted to her about the shortages in the NHS; she described very clearly how, at her hospital at least, no-one was turned away for treatment, and it was rare - if ever - that costs incurred were pursued from foreign nationals. Simply put, the mechanism exists to do so, but no one ever used it.

She came out once with the line "What do you expect us to do - turn people away"? "Too f***ing right" was my reply. "You are there to treat the patient, not to decide on the appropriation of public resource".

Impressed, she wasn't.

Exactly. She’s there to treat the patient, not to act as an immigration or tax official.

I don’t pay £200k/a consultants to worry about who’s under their knife, I pay them to cut the poorly people.


Other agencies are there to enforce sensible immigration policies +/or indulge the Nazi fantasies of Sun readers.


That’s what we voted for on Brexit Day.
 
Ages ago I dated a hospital consultant. I chatted to her about the shortages in the NHS; she described very clearly how, at her hospital at least, no-one was turned away for treatment, and it was rare - if ever - that costs incurred were pursued from foreign nationals. Simply put, the mechanism exists to do so, but no one ever used it.

She came out once with the line "What do you expect us to do - turn people away"? "Too f***ing right" was my reply. "You are there to treat the patient, not to decide on the appropriation of public resource".

Impressed, she wasn't.
I really appreciate the great work that the majority of staff at NHS do. I have been impressed, and thankful during the treatment provided to relatives over the years. Specialist skills, technical brilliance, attentiveness despite pressures, palliative care etc

I have also been frustrated and confused by them apparently losing patients in the system. Logistical issues, lack of joined up thinking, following learned patterns rather than listening to a patient, not so good.
Unfortunately I couldn't be there every day but some people have nobody to try and sort out the small issues that can make a big difference.

There is a belief that everyone should receive treatment. That's great. I admire the willingness and desire to help.
If I was expanding a business, I would want it to be running to a high degree of satisfaction before expanding it.
The NHS has to resolve various issues before it can become the IHS (International Health service).
 

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