TAs on TELIC

#1
OK, I'm about to eat a large portion of humble pie and issue an apology, if I’m proved wrong.

But my experience of the TAs on TELIC 1, was that, as individuals, they were largely an utter cluster.

I'm not talking about how they were mobilised, I know that they were treated appallingly, I’m talking about their:

a. Individual Skills & Drills
b. Attitude
c. General performance.

Out of 100 or so TAs I commanded, I recommended around 7 for regular service, these were all ex regulars.

Now I know standards vary wildly and there are enough sh!te Regular soldiers, but let’s stop kidding ourselves that the TAs are the unsung heroes.

As for Snr Officers receiving informed opinion which differs to mine, I'm immediately suspicious? Which (reg) CO of a TA unit is going to say, “Yes Brig, I know, my TA tps on attachment were an utter disgrace.”

Now, before I’m lambasted from pillar to post, I know that there are some outstanding TA soldiers and some outstanding TA units (having served a number of years with 2 superb TA units), but I didn't experience them on TELIC – which was incidentally, the first and only real large scale short notice deployment of the TA in recent time.

I entered this argument very much pro TA, but was sadly let down…why doesn’t anybody tell it as it was???


This is not a bait...(edited to add that bit)
 
#2
goon_bde said:
- the first and only real large scale short notice deployment of the TA in recent time.
GB,

You really don't get it do you?

The whole point of the thread is that the TA is deployed TELIC1 on criminally short notice, with no consideration given to closing the 'training gap', which exists because we are not full time. Furthermore, a large number of us were given jobs for which we had not been trained even in our TA units.

So for you to come on here and large it about how crap the TA are is more than a bit rich. It is in fact, making you sir, look like an ass.

msr
 
#3
and the problem is that you can always argue the specific against the general and vice versa. Threads like this are divisive and contribute nothing to our mutual service. GB - read the opener for theis Forum, "Regulars, don't bait the TA!"
 
#4
msr said:
goon_bde said:
- the first and only real large scale short notice deployment of the TA in recent time.
GB,

You really don't get it do you?
No pal, you're not getting it...i've seen army cadets conduct themselves better than what i saw. its got fcuk all to do with the trg gap. its to do with the units we saw been full of cronies and hangers on.

I'm talking about 45yr old LCpls who could barely string a sentance together let alone issue a set of orders. Now, if that individual still had a trg gap after 15-20yrs ta service, then we don't need them!
 

Paoli

Old-Salt
#5
The only point I can be arrsed to make is that "TAs" are Teaching Assistants.

The Territorial Army is the TA, members of the TA are TA personnel, TA soldiers or TA whatever. This thread seems to be about the TA rather than TAs. Gimp.
 
#6
goon_bde said:
I'm talking about 45yr old LCpls who could barely string a sentance together let alone issue a set of orders. Now, if that individual still had a trg gap after 15-20yrs ta service, then we don't need them!
So you'll be volunteering your services at a local TA centre this weekend to help them with their training?

No, didn't think so.

msr
 
#8
Paoli said:
The only point I can be arrsed to make is that "TAs" are Teaching Assistants.

The Territorial Army is the TA, members of the TA are TA personnel, TA soldiers or TA whatever. This thread seems to be about the TA rather than TAs. Gimp.
Ok I'm a gimp and a goon...

Watch 'The Office' and you'll regularly hear Gareth referring to his time in the TAs...hence the term...more ensdearing that the S word me thinks, and also subtley amusing as gareth is an awesome caricature of the average TAs type.

ps. i once saw irish comedian ed byrne making jokes about the TAs, he said somebody in the audience always takes offence and waits for him at the end to say that they're in the TAs and its not a joke.

Sure enough at the end of the set at the bar was Ed and some fcukwit heatedly explaining about his bounty system and starred weekends and what a serious committment it was....irony at its highest.
 
#9
abacus said:
msr - you shouldn't wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig quite likes it ;)
Ab, i know you and deeply respect you, but your boys let you down! period.
 
#10
HAHAHAHAHAHA - couldn't believe my eyes when I saw this post:

goon_bde said:
gtispanners said:
are the rlc really as dog shite as everyone says????????????????????
Awesome thread...the prowess of your intellect astonish me...were you an OC in my Regt about 8-9 yrs ago, HQ Sqn??

In answer to your dullard, mongloid question, (I'm sorry, I really have to...)

1. The RLC makes up roughly 20% of the army as a single cap-badge entity - within these 20000 or so pax, there will be a huge span of standards from the uber professional, the fittest/toughest and the most intellectually adept through to the most diabolical wastes of oxygen ever (and I suspect spanners you fit into the latter category).

2. The RLC is a technical arm who has a mastery of basic soldiering skills. Sadly too many people believe the idiom of Soldier first tradesman 2nd. Whilst this is true to a certain extent, our 'soldiers' are just about capable of passing ITDs, thereby qualifying them as soldiers, they are not the same soldiers who make up the ranks of 1 PARA or 40 Cdo - These proper soldiers have soldiering as their core skill and do little else but soldier. RLC troops have to stack, drive, cook, sort mail etc, these are our core skills. I'm sure if you turned off all of these and devoted 100% of trg time to range days, PT, navigation etc you'd see a marked improvement.

3. Like it or not, almost everything you do is influenced by the RLC. Sadly, few people have a real understanding of what we actually do. Few G3 Officer (that’s ones with rifles/tanks etc) care to, or bother to understand G4 (that’s beans and bullets) so there is a disparaging attitude (that's dissing) to the Loggies. A large percentage of logistic fcuk ups are invariably due to lack of consideration to logistic planning timelines.

4. I'm actually starting to bore myself now. But finally, there are around 200 Lt Col posts in the RLC, so I for one am sticking around.

PS Melchy, apologies for responding to this Troll, pse can we assassinate him now?
ffs goon - you are having a bad day aren't you?
 
#11
abacus said:
HAHAHAHAHAHA - couldn't believe my eyes when I saw this post:

goon_bde said:
gtispanners said:
are the rlc really as dog shite as everyone says????????????????????
Awesome thread...the prowess of your intellect astonish me...were you an OC in my Regt about 8-9 yrs ago, HQ Sqn??

In answer to your dullard, mongloid question, (I'm sorry, I really have to...)

1. The RLC makes up roughly 20% of the army as a single cap-badge entity - within these 20000 or so pax, there will be a huge span of standards from the uber professional, the fittest/toughest and the most intellectually adept through to the most diabolical wastes of oxygen ever (and I suspect spanners you fit into the latter category).

2. The RLC is a technical arm who has a mastery of basic soldiering skills. Sadly too many people believe the idiom of Soldier first tradesman 2nd. Whilst this is true to a certain extent, our 'soldiers' are just about capable of passing ITDs, thereby qualifying them as soldiers, they are not the same soldiers who make up the ranks of 1 PARA or 40 Cdo - These proper soldiers have soldiering as their core skill and do little else but soldier. RLC troops have to stack, drive, cook, sort mail etc, these are our core skills. I'm sure if you turned off all of these and devoted 100% of trg time to range days, PT, navigation etc you'd see a marked improvement.

3. Like it or not, almost everything you do is influenced by the RLC. Sadly, few people have a real understanding of what we actually do. Few G3 Officer (that’s ones with rifles/tanks etc) care to, or bother to understand G4 (that’s beans and bullets) so there is a disparaging attitude (that's dissing) to the Loggies. A large percentage of logistic fcuk ups are invariably due to lack of consideration to logistic planning timelines.

4. I'm actually starting to bore myself now. But finally, there are around 200 Lt Col posts in the RLC, so I for one am sticking around.

PS Melchy, apologies for responding to this Troll, pse can we assassinate him now?
ffs goon - you are having a bad day aren't you?
and your point is?
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#12
The deployment was such short notice for political not military reasons. Bliar and his croneys couldn't really put the army on a war footing because it would have looked like they were going to invade regardless of any diplomacy and the press would have had a field day. They were holding back to pander to the "Not in my name" brigade. This is what led directly to the equipment and training issues. If the TA were not prepared then look to our political masters who make the rules and the standards and the funding. Lives were probably not lost as a result of poor TA training, but some were lost and are still being lost due to equipment shortages. Instead of name calling each other, we should be pointing our fingers at the real villians of the piece in the MOD.
 
#13
goon_bde said:
Watch 'The Office' and you'll regularly hear Gareth referring to his time in the TAs...hence the term...more ensdearing that the S word me thinks, and also subtley amusing as gareth is an awesome caricature of the average TAs type.
I can't believe someone prentending to be a Maj/Lt Col from the RLC give the game away by using the term TAs. It is used in the TA but only ORs who are bordering on chavdom.

p.s. The office is fiction and Gareth is an actor.
 
#14
In my unit, we had three blokes mobbilised for Telic 1. One was an outstanding Cpl young, single keen aggressive and more than willing to go. The second was average Lance Jack with a fair bit of experience who had just gotten married and had 3 young kids, he was therefore a bit reluctant. The third was a oxygen thief who had been a rifleman for donkeys years (no problem with that if thats what you want, but he wanted promotion and had never been sent on PJNCOs) he was also known to be a liability in the field and an undisciplined tw*t out of it. On top of all that he was medically downgraded at the time due to having recently broken his leg.
None of these 3 ended up deploying as the only one who wanted to go and would have execellent was binned at Chilwell cos he needed a filling! THere were loads of us who were champing at the bit to go and asked to volunteer only to be told it was compulsary mobilisation only. No wonder people weren't impressed with those who did deploy, as it seems no consideration was given to ability or willingness to go.
 

RP578

LE
Book Reviewer
#15
GB,

I think that your experiences with the TA may have been specific to your Cap Badge and to the initial Op Telic, as large numbers were called up with little consideration to individual quality. Things have tightened quite considerably since then, but we still have the occasional accident slip through. On a recent pre-deployment cadre at least 2 out of the group of 40 should never have been mobilised for anything more demanding than All Arms Window Licking.

A small percentage to be sure, but you can't underestimate the damge that these people can wreak. What's more, you can guarantee that they will be the ones identified/labelled/remembered as TA by their regular coworkers.
 
#17
goon_bde said:
OK, I'm about to eat a large portion of humble pie and issue an apology, if I’m proved wrong.

But my experience of the TAs on TELIC 1, was that, as individuals, they were largely an utter cluster.

I'm not talking about how they were mobilised, I know that they were treated appallingly, I’m talking about their:

a. Individual Skills & Drills
b. Attitude
c. General performance.

Out of 100 or so TAs I commanded, I recommended around 7 for regular service, these were all ex regulars.

Now I know standards vary wildly and there are enough sh!te Regular soldiers, but let’s stop kidding ourselves that the TAs are the unsung heroes.

As for Snr Officers receiving informed opinion which differs to mine, I'm immediately suspicious? Which (reg) CO of a TA unit is going to say, “Yes Brig, I know, my TA tps on attachment were an utter disgrace.”

Now, before I’m lambasted from pillar to post, I know that there are some outstanding TA soldiers and some outstanding TA units (having served a number of years with 2 superb TA units), but I didn't experience them on TELIC – which was incidentally, the first and only real large scale short notice deployment of the TA in recent time.

I entered this argument very much pro TA, but was sadly let down…why doesn’t anybody tell it as it was???


This is not a bait...(edited to add that bit)
A few points
1. As Has been Highlited in another one your posts your own soldiers are under trained on Basic soldiering skills. Shoddy very shoddy perhaps you should make time for this in your training programme. If this is so easy the TA RLC could follow your lead and spend less time shouting for "MORE PEPPER" and going gliding and more time being the steely eyed killers that you want them to be.
2.Attitude. from what I have read here YOU are the one with the attitude problem. It seems to me like you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about the TA. As has been said on another thread its those with the biggest problems that highlight others faults to cover up their own shortcomings. Whats wrong didn't the infantry select you when you were at Sandhurst?

If the particular TA soldiers weren't up to the job of driving or cooking, why didn't YOU as their officer (having evaluated their abilities) give them differnt jobs to do. It should have been easy for you seeing as you're the dogs danglies
 
#18
Goon_bde may have put his point in a hopelessly tactless manner, however he does make some valid points, particularly the points in reference to the elderly clingers on in the TA. The old guard from the cold war is still hanging around in TA stores and MT depts across the country, failing their CFTs and giving unhelpfull 'advice' to younger and better soldiers than themselves. However the system was at fault for mobilising these individuals rather than the current intelligent mobilisation process. The old guard talk about the 'terries' or the TAs and talk about drill nights and manouvres and such like. They however are a dieing breed and are being driven out. We now call ourselves simply Army, however much regulars try to create distinctions between us and them.
 
#19
GB has clearly riled the lot of you. As the tag line says there is little point in a weblog discussing the ''the ta are great, no they're not'' issue. There is a serious point to what GB says and it is something i have experienced in my ta unit; there are a lot of people who know the drill, turn up to get away form their partners and then bag the bounty. when asked at short notice to do what they actually volunteered for, they suffer from an extreme case of wobbly lip. they then spend the rest of the deployment doing anything they can to get home. the travesty is that there are loads of good, keen soldiers who tried to get on the deployment and where told to knob off. the time should come for the commanding officers of these hoods to have the moral courage to get rid of them, they take the queen's shilling and shouldn't shinff when asked to earn it, they should instead get on with it in a professional manner as the service demands. cnuts.
 
#20
[quote="goon_bde"I'm talking about 45yr old LCpls who could barely string a sentance together let alone issue a set of orders. Now, if that individual still had a trg gap after 15-20yrs ta service, then we don't need them![/quote]

I've never seen a 45 LCpl in my life in the TA?
 

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