Tanks...

#21
Seems I was out with dates and apologise. Please see below.

India Service.jpg
 
#22
Seems I was out with dates and apologise. Please see below.

View attachment 335992
Well, that makes life more interesting.
If memory serves, the RTC in France was using the old tanks. I think Fletcher posted an article about it in an issue of Tracklink a couple of years back, and how they all got dumped and buried.
Can't read/work out the second one.

But if he was on Larkhill or Salisbury as you said, and in MK.V's, I thought the entire RTC had converted by 28.
 

Joshua Slocum

LE
Book Reviewer
#23
OT, but I always idly wonder what the Mk1-Vs would have been like if there had been more advanced engines at the time. Imagine if they'd had Meteors fitted or similar - with those rhomboid tracks, they'd have absolutely bombed across the battlefield.
the drive chains would not have withstood the power
at the Tank memorial at Poziers, the 6 pounder barrels line the outside, linked up by driving chains, 30HP would probably stretch and break them, and the gears likewise
1311.JPG
 
Last edited:
#24
OT, but I always idly wonder what the Mk1-Vs would have been like if there had been more advanced engines at the time. Imagine if they'd had Meteors fitted or similar - with those rhomboid tracks, they'd have absolutely bombed across the battlefield.
The tracks wouldn't have lasted long, they weren't built for more than chugging along at a sedate pace. They had a very short lifespan as well, measured in 10's of miles.
 
#25
Here are a couple of interesting original photo's of a captured tank (re-named 'Liesel') and a sad looking C41 'male'.

tank2.jpg
tank1.jpg
tank3.jpg
 
Last edited:
#26
Not tanks, but from the same photo album. Attributed to "Leutnant Schäfer. Kommandant des Divisions Stabs Quartier 5. Garde Infantrie Division der 1917 und 1918 in Frankreich im Einsatz war".

tank5.jpg
tank6.jpg
tank7.jpg
tank4.jpg
 
Last edited:
#27
Here are a couple of interesting original photo's of a captured tank (re-named 'Liesel') and a sad looking C41 'male'.
(currently for sale on ebay.de)
View attachment 351201 View attachment 351203 View attachment 351204
Interestingly I'm intrigued by the use of the word "Tank" in German. The reason for this is that Panzer is armour, Kampf wagen is fighting vehicle but it's not used in this context. Obviously they heard the British use the word tank and used that first. Yet for catalogue purposes we use the AFV in exactly the same way that the Germans do but colloquially use the word "tank". I did hear the use of the word "Wagen" for individual vehicles when I was in.
 
#28
My father was in The Tank Corps during the First War. He told me they always referred to individual tanks as 'cars'. Sounds odd, but he was clear on it.
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
#29
Interestingly I'm intrigued by the use of the word "Tank" in German. The reason for this is that Panzer is armour, Kampf wagen is fighting vehicle but it's not used in this context. Obviously they heard the British use the word tank and used that first. Yet for catalogue purposes we use the AFV in exactly the same way that the Germans do but colloquially use the word "tank". I did hear the use of the word "Wagen" for individual vehicles when I was in.
We also used the word "Panzer", and some of our senior officers and NCOs who remembered armoured cars (to be fair we were an armoured car regiment in Omagh) also used "cars", mainly as in "a three/four/eight car troop". I guess it was easier than having to differentiate between Scorpion, Scimitar and Spartan troops. And a shed load easier than saying "CVR(T)" repeatedly.
 
#31
OT, but I always idly wonder what the Mk1-Vs would have been like if there had been more advanced engines at the time. Imagine if they'd had Meteors fitted or similar - with those rhomboid tracks, they'd have absolutely bombed across the battlefield.
As well as the previously mentioned issues with drive chains and tracks, the non-existent suspension would have rattled the crew round and injured them.
 
#32
We also used the word "Panzer", and some of our senior officers and NCOs who remembered armoured cars (to be fair we were an armoured car regiment in Omagh) also used "cars", mainly as in "a three/four/eight car troop". I guess it was easier than having to differentiate between Scorpion, Scimitar and Spartan troops. And a shed load easier than saying "CVR(T)" repeatedly.
I wonder if that was a humorous use of the word. Cars would have been more accurate in those cases. In German the use of the word Wagen is a direct transliteration to "Wagon" which as you know is a mobile platform for carrying anything you like. I just wondered if the way that Germans later referred to their tanks- or we refer to them if you see what I mean,had more to do with "officialeese"than how they referred to them individually.
 

Joshua Slocum

LE
Book Reviewer
#34
As well as the previously mentioned issues with drive chains and tracks, the non-existent suspension would have rattled the crew round and injured them.
they were probably too far gone with the heat and the fumes to notice, given the choice of shanks pony or a tin box I know which I would go for
 
#35
Last year the Wife and I attended Cambrai 100. On the Saturday they opened a new small museum to house Deborah. Lady Rocket and I managed to get a look around before the VIPs turned up.
Gentlemen.... DEBORAH
IMG_2207.JPG
IMG_2207.JPG
IMG_2206.JPG
IMG_2203.JPG
IMG_2202.JPG
IMG_2200.JPG
 
#36
Just to add to this Thread
on Remembrance Sunday I took my Elderly father to visit the new museum, I had tried to visit before when she was in the barn but missed it, first of all the location of the building is perfect, directly adjacent to the CWGC cemetery at Flesquieres Hill, it is a fitting tribute to the crew who lie buried there
Private W.C. Robinson
1st driver Lance Corporal George. C. Foot D.C.M
Gunner William Galway
Gunner Joseph Cheverton
Gunner F.W. Tipping

The building is in cast concrete in what I would call the Brutalist style, the angles of the Fascia with the Dates of the battles, and the lack of Windows at the front, combined with the big solid steel doors give it the look of a bunker
Upon entering a small shop and kiosk is in front of you ( stocked with some very good books ) toilets to your right and the cinema on your left
after paying your entry fee you wait for the film to come around to your language and then you are given an excellent overview of the tank battles in 1916 and 1917
once complete you open the heavy metal door into the large vault where Deborah now resides, a long wide ramp with steps takes you down to Deborah and allows you to view her from several angles, only when you reach ground level does her immense size strike you, it really is a land-ship, temperature and moisture controlled she will last for a thousand years now, in the exact state that she was discovered, it is best if you do not place fingers on her hull, as this promotes corrosion, and will also sound an alarm ( she is electrically isolated from the floor) the mere fact that you can get so close in the age of keeping things apart with barriers and screens allows you to understand the frailty of this leviathan
her Starboard side is heavily damaged, but this allow you to see in great detail the minutia of her construction
the drivers seat directly above the sleeve valve engine reflects contemporary commercial vehicle practise of the time, but must have made for a deafening and choking experience
many smaller parts and oddments are on display, and in a side room the uniform and mask of the Tanks Commander F.G. Heap are displayed
as you leave the gallery a display of superbly crafted models catches your eye, and then a small memorial with pictures and history of her crew, as you leave the Chamber a cinema gives an excellent film about the area and many of the postwar reconstructions carried out, including the most recent restoration and discovery of the German defences
as we left, a Gentleman came up and asked us if we had enjoyed our visit, and had we combined it with a personal visit ( we had a very emotional visit that morning ) My Elderly Father was most touched to meet Philippe Gorcynski , I must admit I was so surprised that I forgot to ask him to autograph the copy of his fine book I had just purchased ( along with 5 others !!)

The museum is well worth visiting, and I will return later next year with the younger members of my family and explore a little more
images to follow
 
#40
Seeing the engine in b+w gives a lot more detail. When I took my pictures, there was a bit of pressure to hurry up, as they were cleaning the building for the Grand opening that lunch time. As a lowly Trooper in the Regt, I was missed off the official opening. :eek:
 

Latest Threads

Top