Tanker attacks Gulf of Oman 13/6/19

I am not an expert and stand corrected to my naval brethren, but one assumes a small midget submarine bottomed on the seafloor at say 15,000 yards from an expected target, who enters a particular locale, would be very hard to detect until it loosed off a torpedo.... Especially, if the surface Iranian ships are doing plenty of distraction and keeping the destroyer busy with high speed running and active surface weapons.
ERRRRRR see my post at number 109 .
 
Isn't a Type 23's entire role ASW?
A 1980's kilo class sub Vs a 1987 era ASW ship, whom we can bet has a higher level of upgrades and maintenance/training?

Yes I know bugger all about hips, and even less about subs. So this is just a random thought which the grown ups can enlighten us on?
The Type 23 was designed for ASW - with features to make it very quiet, such as the diesl electric propulsion for quiet operation. I am not sure if Montrose is one of the ones that received Sonar 2087, or if it would be much used in the constrained waters of the trait and Arabian/Persian Gulf, but she does have hull mounted sonar and a Wildcat for Stingray delivery.

I think the T23s did not start entering service until the nineties, and have been regularly updated. I am not sure Iran has an equivalent of FOST.

I am not an expert and stand corrected to my naval brethren, but one assumes a small midget submarine bottomed on the seafloor at say 15,000 yards from an expected target, who enters a particular locale, would be very hard to detect until it loosed off a torpedo.... Especially, if the surface Iranian ships are doing plenty of distraction and keeping the destroyer busy with high speed running and active surface weapons.
What destroyer? Anyway - the answer to your question has already been worked on by people such as the Maritime Warfare Centre and other nations' equivalents.
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
Perfidious Albion at its best -- you sell us a navy but can't supply spares -- did we pay you in full?
We sold the Shah a navy. And a Tank Brigade.

Khomeini repudiated his bills - so we confiscated a couple of ships till wiser heads prevailed.

The Yanks on the other hand sold him F-14 Tomcats.

To this day the only operators of that ac are the US Navy and the Iranian Air Force.

Oh, and by the way....since the mid 80s no British Defence company has been able to deal with Iran. First it was the iran-Iraq war,then a detained businessman then something else.

What it boils down to is the US hates Iran with a passion - and will make life extremely difficult for anyone who deals with the Islamic Republic.

How much of that is down to injured US pride and how much down to every US President's need to keep Israel sweet is anyone's guess.


That said, the loony theocrats running Persia today are unquestionably a vile bunch. Their human rights record is much worse than...er...China's........ahem.


It would be illuminating to see which of the former Shah's bestest friends have suffered the most financially from the freeze on business relations since 1979.

I'd be willing to bet that Britain has come off much worse than the U.S.......funny old world.


psst...wanna buy a new Hillman Hunter ?

'Iran's Arrow': Don't miss this documentary about Iran's beloved Hillman Hunters
 
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We sold the Shah a navy. And a Tank Brigade.

Khomeini repudiated his bills - so we confiscated a couple of ships till wiser heads prevailed.

The Yanks on the other hand sold him F-14 Tomcats.

To this day the only operators of that ac are the US Navy and the Iranian Air Force.

Oh, and by the way....since the mid 80s no British Defence company has been able to deal with Iran. First it was the iran-Iraq war,then a detained businessman then something else.

What it boils down to is the US hates Iran with a passion - and will make life extremely difficult for anyone who deals with the Islamic Republic.

How much of that is down to injured US pride and how much down to every US President's need to keep Israel sweet is anyone's guess.

It would be illuminating to see which of the former Shah's bestest friends have suffered the most financially from the freeze on business relations since 1979.

I'd be willing to bet that Britain has come off much worse than the U.S.......funny old world.
JCPOA opened up the opportunity of wider markets in Iran, especially in the British financial services sector.A number of investment banks cautiously engaged with Iranian market, only to risk being spanked when the US withdrew from the agreement and imposed wider sanctions, including against British banks dealing with Iran.
 
There’s probably still some of my porn stashed on the Montrose!

Old ships...
 
In the narrow & shallow confines of the Gulf there isn't much scope for subs to operate unless you have very advanced kit & very well trained people manning them. Whether the Iranian navy has either is another matter. I would suspect not & the used of these raiders sort of shows that.
 
IIRC, RoE will be based on distance of approach and level of threat. Something like:

1. Warning 10km - radio
2. Warning 5km
3. Warning 3km
4. Train weapons
5. Shot across bows (30mm x 5 rounds)
6. Shoot at them

There will be some latitude depending on the type and size of threat, perceived level of threat and manoeuvring room.
 
Aye, sadly that is the reality of the modern age... Personally I don't see it as unlawful, as the Skiffs are presumably in international waters, armed and threatening to take the tanker. But, before the legal trolls jump, I concede am probably in a minority.
The (old) man on the scene knows best.
The man is not you and the scene is not the Internet.
 
Feel free to tell us how Ford could have stopped the use of slave labour or indeed production from 1942 onwards -

As for your IBM is part responsible for the holocaust because prior to it commencing they sold rolodexes to Germany equivalence - its beyond parody.

@BugsyIV - One of yours I think

I believe hes been told hes a stupid cünt before, as this is not the naafi I can't call the stupid cūnt a stupid cünt.
So I will wait and see if the thread gets binned.
I doubt it though as it's a good thread, his posts are the exception.
The department thanks you for your notification and apologise for the delay, but as we are volunteers we have to fit it in around other things.
 

Trans-sane

LE
Book Reviewer
Fox has tried to make some capital out of this already. He has said the Navy is overstretched and has promised to increase defence spending to 2.5% by 2023. Get your bids in now folks!
 

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