Tales of a Colonial Policeman

For them to have rocked up all at the same time would have been a migration of massive proportions and there is no mention of it anywhere by anyone. There is no record of thousands upon thousands of Germanic invaders streaming into Britain to change the ethnic and linguistic make up of the country. The archaeological evidence doesn't indicate ethnic cleansing and driving out of a local Celtic population. We have always assumed that a Germanic invasion came about because of one mention in passing by the Venerable Bede. I think.

Someone rocked up in his long boat, but the DNA evidence says that they were, like the Franks who went to Gaul, a ready-made ruling class. You know, chancers and soldiers.
As I understand it, the Saxons were brought in by the Romans to act as "private security contractors" to replace Roman legions for internal security work as the Romans drew down troop levels in Britain. When the Romans finally pulled out their troops completely, the Saxons invited in some of their friends and staged a take over of the government. There would have been Saxon villages, but there was no wholesale replacement of the existing population.

From what I understand, at the time the Romans arrived the Britains were mainly culturally and linguistically related to the Belgians. There were Celts, but they were an ethnic minority.

From what I have read, this was common in large parts of the western Roman Empire. The biggest problem the Romans faced during the late empire was internal peasant rebellions. We're not sure just what the social conditions were which provoked wide scale peasant revolts, but apparently they were a big issue. We do know that the economy was in increasingly bad shape during the late empire, but we have limited understanding of the details.

In response the Romans brought in barbarians from outside the empire, and settled them in strategic locations. The barbarians provided internal security forces to deal with the peasant revolts. As Roman power waned, the barbarians assumed ever higher positions in government and eventually declared themselves to be rulers of independent kingdoms. Titles such as "duke" and "count" were senior administrative positions in the Roman administration. "Prince" was also a Roman title, although more of a social rank than a job description.

The current view is that it wasn't a case of things were fine in the Roman Empire and then one day the barbarians swept down out of the north-east and took over in an orgy of pillage and conquest. Rather, they were invited in as mercenaries and gradually took over from below as the central Roman state weakened and decayed.
 
Er....You do realise the Taffs were the original Celtic inhabitants of Britain until my Germanic Hun Anglo-Saxon ancesters came over as hired security on their longboats from Northern Germany/Southern Denmark around 440 AD to keep the sweatys out. "Bloody Huns, far too many of them, they are taking over the place" said the Taffs. And we did, after shagging his daughters as well.

Wales is just a reservation for dispossed Welshmen. Just to show that there is no hard feeling, and to keep them gainfully occupied, so that they wouldn't pull off another Boudica/Iceni stunt like they did with the Romans, we populated it with lots of sheep and goats.

They are still not getting England back though.

Morning @par avion,
We don't want it back.
 
So the thread seems to have gone to ' Tales of Colonial Policing in Roman Britain. The experiences of an Anglo-Saxon Germanic barbarian'.


The normal course of events for many/most Arrse threads :)
 
So you are saying that the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes didn't rock up in their longboats in about 440 AD from Northern Germany/Southern Denmark. That is all a myth?


Continuing the thread drift, this explains some of it Saxon Shore - Wikipedia
snip "Two interpretations were put forward as to the meaning of the adjective "Saxon": either a shore attacked by Saxons, or a shore settled by Saxons. Some argue that the latter hypothesis is supported by Eutropius, who states that during the 280s the sea along the coasts of Belgica and Armorica was "infested with Franks and Saxons", and that this was why Carausius was first put in charge of the fleet there.[2] However, Eutropius refers to Franks and Saxons as seaborne invaders. It also receives at least partial support from archaeological finds, as artefacts of a Germanic style have been found in burials, while there is evidence of the presence of Saxons (mostly laeti Roman army recruits though) in some numbers in SE England and the northern coasts of Gaul around Boulogne-sur-Mer and Bayeux from the middle of the 5th century onwards.[3] This, in turn, mirrors a well documented practice of deliberately settling Germanic tribes (Franks became foederati in 358 AD under Emperor Julian) to strengthen Roman defences.
The other interpretation, supported by Stephen Johnson, holds that the forts fulfilled a coastal defence role against seaborne invaders, mostly Saxons and Franks,[4] and acted as bases for the naval units operating against them. This view is reinforced by the parallel chain of fortifications across the Channel on the northern coasts of Gaul, which complemented the British forts, suggesting a unified defensive system.[5]
Another theory, proposed by D.A. White, was that the extended system of large stone forts was disproportionate to any threat by seaborne Germanic raiders, and that it was actually conceived and constructed during the secession of Carausius and Allectus (the Carausian Revolt) in 289-296, and with an entirely different enemy in mind: they were to guard against an attempt at reconquest by the Empire. This view, although widely disputed, has found recent support from archaeological evidence at Pevensey, which dates the fort's construction to the early 290s.[9]
Whatever their original purpose, it is virtually certain[citation needed] that in the late 4th century the forts and their garrisons were employed in operations against Frankish and Saxon pirates. Britain was abandoned by Rome in 407, with Armorica following soon after. The forts on both sides continued to be inhabited in the following centuries, and in Britain in particular several continued in use well into the Anglo-Saxon period.

This being one of my favourites...

220px-Portchester_Castle_D_shaped_towers.JPG



Portchester Castle , originally built by the Romans, adapted & added to by the Normans, used in civil war and later as Napoleonic prison and most recently as an AA battery in WW2.
 
Fortunately for me, having covered most of the early history of Britain in the first 4 years of grammar school, we covered from the corn laws to 1945 in our )O level history classes. As history was one of my favourite subjects and I had a great history teacher who coincidentally had exactly the same name as me (no relation at all), I took & passed O level history with flying colours at 14 & was allowed to take & pass British Empire history as well.
The teacher was extremely upset when I left school at 15, albeit with 7 O levels, instead of going on to do it at A level & then onto Uni where he said I would easily get a degree in it. He actually wrote to my mother to persuade her to let me stay on, but sadly coming from a very poor one parent family, (we lived with my Grandparents) I left and started work the next week, with me feeling ever so proud putting my first weeks pay packet on my grans ironing board, the magnificent sum of £2.10/- less stoppages, from which she gave me the large sum, to me, of 7/6* to spend!
* that's 37 & 1/2 p for you youngsters. & yes it would pay for enough pints to get me pissed on Friday night. (I was tall for my age & never had problems getting served) :)
Late for the first shout, so apols, and not wishing to derail etc ... allow me to also congratulate you on an enormous fount of reasonably modern history of “our Empire”, as was then, ... “BZ, that Man!“. In my formative youth I was fortunate to attend the English School of Paris ‘63-‘66, wherein I was able to absorb the wealth of ‘O-Level’ history pertinent to England and Europe from the C17th onwards, with all its unsavouryness and realities; and also had Latin drummed into me, which gave me an appetite for languages. Both subjects also gave me a great grounding in the Humanities fields. Upon return to the Antipodes, into Year 10/4th Form of our system, I was not able to study either of those disciplines until Year 12/6th Form, to my utter disgust. Further, our late ‘60s/early ‘70s political climate was such that any Territories/Colonies/Protectorates we were responsible for were rapidly/obscenely being cast adrift; notably what is now the basket-case that is PNG, and the very close call that has recently, painfully, become Timor Leste. We cannot change history, and we cannot avoid further exacerbating some of its’ well-documented pitfalls ... I do believe we have done our younger generations a great disservice by mollycoddling them. Again, BZ, indeed!
 
I don't think it's funny that they were shot. I think it was funny that the people who were doing it were so appallingly lacking in civilized behaviour that they had to be told not to shoot fellow humans as game. I see it as black humour. I've removed the "funny" though, as it seems to have upset you and I didn't intend that.

Were people actually shooting them as "game" though, or was there some other reason behind it and people thought they could get away with shooting them over it?

Sadly because they occasionally poached cattle from white Boer farmers they were considered a pest like Lions, hyenas etc ...
"Many South Africans don’t know that the last permit to stalk, prey and hunt the San was issued from Pretoria in 1936. It was to hunt a ‘female and male Bushman’."
 
Late for the first shout, so apols, and not wishing to derail etc ... allow me to also congratulate you on an enormous fount of reasonably modern history of “our Empire”, as was then, ... “BZ, that Man!“. In my formative youth I was fortunate to attend the English School of Paris ‘63-‘66, wherein I was able to absorb the wealth of ‘O-Level’ history pertinent to England and Europe from the C17th onwards, with all its unsavouryness and realities; and also had Latin drummed into me, which gave me an appetite for languages. Both subjects also gave me a great grounding in the Humanities fields. Upon return to the Antipodes, into Year 10/4th Form of our system, I was not able to study either of those disciplines until Year 12/6th Form, to my utter disgust. Further, our late ‘60s/early ‘70s political climate was such that any Territories/Colonies/Protectorates we were responsible for were rapidly/obscenely being cast adrift; notably what is now the basket-case that is PNG, and the very close call that has recently, painfully, become Timor Leste. We cannot change history, and we cannot avoid further exacerbating some of its’ well-documented pitfalls ... I do believe we have done our younger generations a great disservice by mollycoddling them. Again, BZ, indeed!


Thanks for that, as you may have seen, my reasons for penning this were to try & put the truth about my experiences of our time as colonialists in Central Africa. Quite a few Arrsers did request I put my musings down as I often posted to correct inaccuracies in some posts about the dark continent.
You may well imagine my annoyance, nay anger, when I read an article or see yet another tv program trashing our efforts in Africa to pacify warring tribes, stamp out witchcraft, cannibalism and stop Slavery, by tarring all & every action as being exploitative or racist!
 
Waloons in Belgium, Walachia in eastern Europe, the surname Wallace..............


..........and Grommet:- origins from french description of the "curb of bridle" 1620-30.

English meaning:- "The jewels of the golden gates of heaven"......non attributable.

A Grommet, a circular rubber insert to insulate electrical cables from the steel switch or socket outlet flush box entry holes.
 

Zhopa

LE
Thanks for that, as you may have seen, my reasons for penning this were to try & put the truth about my experiences of our time as colonialists in Central Africa. Quite a few Arrsers did request I put my musings down as I often posted to correct inaccuracies in some posts about the dark continent.
You may well imagine my annoyance, nay anger, when I read an article or see yet another tv program trashing our efforts in Africa to pacify warring tribes, stamp out witchcraft, cannibalism and stop Slavery, by tarring all & every action as being exploitative or racist!

And did you get anywhere with compiling everything, and looking for a publisher (or more likely, self-publishing given the unfashionable nature of the content?)
 

jmb3296

LE
Book Reviewer
And did you get anywhere with compiling everything, and looking for a publisher (or more likely, self-publishing given the unfashionable nature of the content?)
I dont think it is unfashionable but I appreciate your post can be read in different ways.

ex colonial did steer me towards other published authors covering the same period and geography from a similar perspective. Ex colonials writing was better though. Those authors did get published and their books sell.

there is a difference between the woke and permanently outraged, their numbers are far smaller than the noise and volume they generate than the quieter majority. To be fair to them, most of them grow out of it.
 
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Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
An inappropriate funny! Thousands were shot including the last few who knew how to mix the paints they used for their rock paintings.
They knew how to deal with graffiti twats back then.
 
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And did you get anywhere with compiling everything, and looking for a publisher (or more likely, self-publishing given the unfashionable nature of the content?)


I did get the British Empire web site to do a reasonable precis of it. Sadly I just don't have the patience/skill to do more than post the odd one finger typed post on here due to limited mobility/ability following a stroke some 18 years ago and the onset of age (81).
I did contact one author of historical novels about Rome, to see if he could mould a fictional character or 2 out of my & John Gornall's book "No better Life" but he declined using the fact that to show our "white British" efforts in Africa in a good light in any book would not go down well with both publishers, critics and many modern readers!
 

Zhopa

LE
to show our "white British" efforts in Africa in a good light in any book would not go down well with both publishers, critics and many modern readers!

Exactly my point on self-publishing probably being a more promising route, because all of these would recoil in horror from something which so affronted woke sensibilities. But that doesn't mean there wouldn't be plenty of grateful readers if you could be found an amanuensis. As I think may have been mentioned upstream, it wouldn't be the first "book of the thread" - STUMPY AND THE AULD SAPPER: Amazon.co.uk: Orr, Rab: Books

Have you come across the "Writers" thread, and if not might it inspire you? https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threads/wannabe-writers.265302/
 
I did get the British Empire web site to do a reasonable precis of it. Sadly I just don't have the patience/skill to do more than post the odd one finger typed post on here due to limited mobility/ability following a stroke some 18 years ago and the onset of age (81).
I did contact one author of historical novels about Rome, to see if he could mould a fictional character or 2 out of my & John Gornall's book "No better Life" but he declined using the fact that to show our "white British" efforts in Africa in a good light in any book would not go down well with both publishers, critics and many modern readers!


Further to that response, I have managed to find 2 of the Emails from the Author who has written over a dozen books mainly about the exploits of a Roman Soldier in various campaigns, which fully explain his reluctance to proceed .....

2020-08-23
Hi Ken
Thanks for the further post. I won't be attempting to write the series you propose as a) I don't have the time (thriller writing, day job, etc) and b) I believe it would never see the light of day. No publisher is going to put such a book out, and if they did the sales would not be very good. Like it or not (and you're allowed not to like it, obviously) the woke zeitgeist is on top right now, and it's not going to relent. Hence the Tarrant article which some might consider virtue signalling.
I understand your perspective and frustration although I don't entirely share that viewpoint as it's obviously very complex. And I wish you every good luck in finding an author to take what I consider would be a very brave step in writing such a series.
Thanks and regards,
Tony.

and this further one following my response telling him of the missionaries request to the British Govt. for protection ...

later same day
Hi Ken,
There is of course a narrative that would imply that the missionaries were nothing more than the empire's colonialist outriders, whose purpose, intended or not, was to extend British territory by putting themselves at risk and requiring a police action that would then bring the region in question into the pink section of the map. I've read about the French using them for exactly that purpose. And there's an interesting parallel with the Romans, who conquered Britannia in search of gold and slaves and then found themselves having to keep the warring tribes apart.
Whatever the point of view one chooses to espouse, the reality is that the woke narrative isn't going away and is swiftly becoming the received truth, and that's not a trend I have any intention of attempting to buck given the swift demonization of anyone that tries to do so. And to be honest, I'm not in the 'the empire (any of them) was entirely a force for good' camp either, believing that 'there were good and bad outcomes resulting, but the former don't really excuse the imperialist land grabs by all parties in the 19th century'. The Navy defeating pirates is a different matter, entirely justified and I think we're all going to miss the USN when the USA withdraws from the world's sea lanes.
We all believe what our life experiences lead us to, I guess.
Cheers!
Tony.

The bolded part is I feel what has happened to much of our society where many people seem to have either given up or bowed to pressure from the "wokerati".
 

Zhopa

LE
The bolded part is I feel what has happened to much of our society where many people seem to have either given up or bowed to pressure from the "wokerati".

This is true. And you have to have achieved a position of absolutely unassailable authority to be permitted to even comment on that fact.

 

4(T)

LE
The bolded part is I feel what has happened to much of our society where many people seem to have either given up or bowed to pressure from the "wokerati".


I think its much worse than that. Its not just people bowing to the wokerati, I think we have to face the fact that upcoming generations have been brought up in and taught new belief systems and revised versions of history and genuinely believe those new narratives.

I'd go as far as to say that, in general, people under 50 tend to think of British Imperial history as "bad to very bad", whereas those under 30 genuinely believe it was "very bad to evil".

Its on ongoing process of cultural dismantling. If you look around MSM and the web, the latest set of themes are that "the British were as bad as or worse than the Nazis". A common "truism" amongst the young, for example, is that the British have undertaken at least four deliberate genocides.

All of this goes hand in hand with the corruption of academia - the withdrawal of opposing points of view, the negating of evidence, the shunning of context or critical thinking. Its pretty indicative that its practically impossible to find a current author who writes about a particular section of history without a heavy anti-British revisionist slant. You often have to go back to a 50+ year old book to get a factual and contextual history.
 

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