Taleban ‘threaten British values like the Nazis’

#1
From The Times
December 20, 2008
Taleban ‘threaten British values like the Nazis’

Fighting the Taleban is 'a vital national security mission', says John Hutton
Rachel Sylvester and Alice Thomson

John Hutton, the Defence Secretary, has compared the Taleban and al-Qaeda to the Nazis, saying that British forces in Afghanistan are defending the country’s values as they did in the Second World War.

In an interview in The Times today, Mr Hutton says that, like the war to defeat Hitler, the military campaign in Afghanistan is “a vital national security mission” and not just a matter of foreign affairs.

“We know that we must tackle the [terrorist] threat at source, it is not just going to go away,” he says. “It is a struggle against fanatics that may not challenge our borders but challenges our way of life in the same way the Nazis did.” British troops may be a long way from home but they are “defending our values and that must be understood”.

Mr Hutton gives warning that the war in Afghanistan will be long and hard. “We will stay there as long as is necessary to secure all of our objectives – it’s going to be years,” he says.

“The key thing now is not that the Taleban or al-Qaeda can defeat us in Afghanistan, their tactic is to outlast us. That’s what we’ve got to deal with. That’s the nature of this counter-insurgency operation . . . It doesn’t lend itself to instantaneous results. This is a very complex, challenging environment for us to be operating in
More on the link
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5372585.ece
 
#2
I think Brown and New Labour are more of a threat to British values than the Taliban, theyve done more to destroy this country than anyone else I know.
Its a big brother nanny state .....don't smoke, don't drink too much, don't do this don't do that, the Orwellian dream come true.
I'd sooner shoot one of them than I would a Afghani
 
#3
Yes Crabe I do tend to agree.
Socialism is all about Control.
They want to control your life.
I know people who lived in Eastern Europe under Communism and they say it was all about control not Karl Marks.
john
 
#4
If this truly is the case then it's time to stop trying to win hearts and minds and obliterate the threat, I'm sick of seeing pandering by this government to those they believe may be a threat to british values, kick those out of the country who preach hate, send them back to their shanties in the middle of nowhere where they will be non entities and no one will care what crap they sprout or at least bring back Capital Punishment to those born in this country who are convicted of terrorism, I don't care what the EU think, they can get stuffed, I don't visit their crappy countries and I never will if I can avoid it, which I have been able to do for 10 years now. Argh, I bloody hate do gooders, if you want to do good, bugger off to the stan and see how much good you'll do on live leak when you're having your head sawn off.
 
#6
Problem with obliterating the threat Tommo is not so much the political reaction whether from Westminster, Brussels, rest of world but the fact our military is far too thinly spread, undermanned and underfunded with no public support for a conflict that has no readily identifiable and acheivable goals, not to mention targets. In 1940 you just aimed at the guy in grey jacket and jackboots or the boxy tanks.

Nowadays any bod in a dishdash and a beard over there can potentially be a threat.

When there was the threat of the Nazis they were committing atrocities as they marched across Europe and could match the Allies in manpower and hardware. The Taliban cannot match British (and other coalition) forces in a stand up fire-fight, which is why we are seeing rise of suicide bombers and IEDs. The Taliban however, pose no real threat to Britain as long as they stay in their sandpit.

What does however pose a threat is the importation and spread of radical Islam within the UK that gives people the mind to view the actions of the Taliban and related Islamic orientated terrorist groups as something to be imitated rather than scorned.

I find the comparison of the Taliban being like the Nazi's as a threat to national security highly insulting to my intelligence, the quotes mentioned in the OP just reek of utter lies and spin....

If you want to tackle a terrorist threat at source, how about stepping up intelligence operations on UK soil against those that would like to go bang in train stations and putting them on the receiving end of something that goes bang and doing it with each and every one of them? Far cheaper than putting them in prison for a minimum of 10 years.

Naturally the Taliban can outlast us there as it were because for them its a theologically driven conflict and the only way to really end such a conflict is in my mind to eradicate everyone with the potential to take part on the enemy side, in which case we might as well just take a bus right back past Germany 1940s and the Middle Eastern battlegrounds of the 13th century if memory serves...

Although I do not wish to downplay the jobs that members of the British armed forces are doing out in Afghanistan but I do not feel that they are defending British values but more conducting a humanitarian mission in attempting to improve the standard of life for the normal Afghan free from threat from militants, involving offensive operations against those militants to provide security to Afghanistan...which I believe sounds more like foreign affairs than defending national security.

I can only hope that the day no more British blood has to be spilt in that hell hole comes soon and that we leave the Afghans to get on with sorting their own house in order, because like the saying goes 'if it aint broke don't fix it' and while I doubt Afghanistan's walls were straight figuratively speaking, they didn't seem to be much of a problem globally speaking bar the opium pre 2001. Same goes for Iraq.

EDIT: Apologies for long rantish post, had to vent. Feel free tear apart, heh.
 
#9
Hmm. Had Britain invaded Germany in 1936 then I night see the point. Otherwise, much as I despise the Taleban, they have no parallels with the Nazis - quite the contrary, they have more in common with Britain in 1940, a small minority defending their way of life against foreign aggressors.
 
#10
smartascarrots said:
Hmm. Had Britain invaded Germany in 1936 then I night see the point. Otherwise, much as I despise the Taleban, they have no parallels with the Nazis - quite the contrary, they have more in common with Britain in 1940, a small minority defending their way of life against foreign aggressors.
I hope it's been a heavy night, if only for the sake of your credibility :x
 
#11
Skynet said:
John Hutton, the Defence Secretary, has compared the Taleban and al-Qaeda to the Nazis, saying that British forces in Afghanistan are defending the country’s values as they did in the Second World War.
Can you imagine WWII being fought today?

Invasion of Poland : UK government embargoes exports of Worcester Sauce to the 3rd Reich.

Battle of Britain : Whole of RAF fighter command arrested for racially aggravated GBH on the instructions of the Commission for Racial Equality. Thank god the jails are full and they find time to repel the Nazi invasion of England between probation appointments.

Battle of the Atlantic : Royal Navy is largely mothballed. The one remaining ASW frigate is easy prey for the U Boats as the batteries in its torpedoes were removed to be fitted to snatch Land Rovers in Afghanistan. Consequently, the Germans win the Battle of the Atlantic and the UK survives the rest of the war eating Pot Noodles air dropped by the USAF.

D-Day : Cancelled due to health and safety concerns.

Downfall : Never happens. Hitler flees the bunker in the face of the advancing Red Army. His plane lands at Heathrow where he and Eva claim asylum. They are given a flat in Haringey where Adolf gets a job as a diversity manager. Eva enters politics and eventually becomes the Green Party's first MP.
 
#12
Ancient_Mariner said:
Skynet said:
John Hutton, the Defence Secretary, has compared the Taleban and al-Qaeda to the Nazis, saying that British forces in Afghanistan are defending the country’s values as they did in the Second World War.
Can you imagine WWII being fought today?

Invasion of Poland : UK government embargoes exports of Worcester Sauce to the 3rd Reich.

Battle of Britain : Whole of RAF fighter command arrested for racially aggravated GBH on the instructions of the Commission for Racial Equality. Thank god the jails are full and they find time to repel the Nazi invasion of England between probation appointments.

Battle of the Atlantic : Royal Navy is largely mothballed. The one remaining ASW frigate is easy prey for the U Boats as the batteries in its torpedoes were removed to be fitted to snatch Land Rovers in Afghanistan. Consequently, the Germans win the Battle of the Atlantic and the UK survives the rest of the war eating Pot Noodles air dropped by the USAF.

D-Day : Cancelled due to health and safety concerns.

Downfall : Never happens. Hitler flees the bunker in the face of the advancing Red Army. His plane lands at Heathrow where he and Eva claim asylum. They are given a flat in Haringey where Adolf gets a job as a diversity manager. Eva enters politics and eventually becomes the Green Party's first MP.
Geeeeenius!
 
#13
smartascarrots said:
Hmm. Had Britain invaded Germany in 1936 then I night see the point. Otherwise, much as I despise the Taleban, they have no parallels with the Nazis - quite the contrary, they have more in common with Britain in 1940, a small minority defending their way of life against foreign aggressors.
Thats right because they are not hated by the majority of Afghan people at all.
 
#15
From what I hear 79% or some such similar figure is the amount of drug crime directly related to Afghan. Bloody loads. Couldn't quote a source but I'm not making it up. 'pon my honour! What we do there is probably a good thing, even if it's not at the moment. I quite agree that the Taliban are a jolly horrible lot. The British-Taliban comparison is ridiculous, but that's my humble, port-fueled opinion.
 
#16
How can anybody take this nonsense seriously?

Remember when Saddam Hussein was the new Hitler? He wasn't even a cardboard Mussolini.

Now we're being told that the Taliban are getting ready to re-fight the Battle of Tours and as soon as they've taken Paris they'll be swimming across the Channel with their scimitars clenched between their teeth. Warmington-On-Sea, look out!

What the hell are we fighting in Afghanistan for anyway? As I remember nobody, not even the CIA, has ever suggested the Taliban have ever attacked anybody in the West. Our original beef with them was that they didn't invite us to invade and occupy their country so we could arrest a handful of murderers. But we went ahead and invaded anyway, and a lot of good it did us. Nobody got their hand on Bin Laden's shoulder and said: "Right, me old beauty, you're nicked."

He and his merry men have long gone. They're probably running a hedge fund on Wall Street nowadays. That seems to be the most efficient way ever invented of destroying Western economies -- all that messing around with airliners and bombs is old terrorism.

Are we in Afghanistan on the premise that we can make countries better -- or at least more like our own -- at bayonet point? I can remember being a member of a UK spearhead battalion which was warned that we might be required to invade Rhodesia in order to install Robert Mugabe in power. In retrospect, wouldn't that have been a wonderful reason to kill or be killed? OK, the Taliban are a bunch of evil minded religious fanatics. Then again, so are most of the Senators from the southern states of America.

Or is the idea that by destroying the Taliban we'll make a billion Muslims suddenly love the West? I don't think so. It would be infinitely cheaper and far more rewarding in terms of Muslim good will simply to give every Palestinian a million dollars as settlement for having their country stolen from under them. It'd certainly be cheaper than continuing the hundred years' war which began on 9/11.

Of course it would be even cheaper and more effective to send UN troops to push the Israeli Army back behind the '67 borders. But since the UK government have, in effect, sold the UK's nuclear bomb making facilities to Israel, I somehow doubt that will happen.

Of course the American, British, Canadian and Australian armies really could hurt the Taliban, but it's not necessary for them to go to Afghanistan. Simply put our own cities under martial law, round up every drug dealer and shoot them within an hour of being arrested. Not only would it really cut down on the heroin turnover, it would make a great reality TV show.

"Welcome to 'Seriously Shooting' and our celebrity shooting squad tonight is Stephen Fry, Chris Barry, Amy Winehouse, Rowan Atkinson, Princess Anne, Kate Moss and Robbie Williams. And remember, everybody will be using colour marker bullets so we'll certainly know who's scored and who hasn't! And where is the mystery shoot up gallery tonight, John?"

"Hi, Mark. The mystery shoot up gallery tonight is the Old Grammar School, Market Harborough. So everybody in the area is invited down to come and watch. Just make sure you're white, middle aged and respectably dressed, otherwise you might find yourself amongst the contestants, ah, ah. Usual rules, 100 metres range, 20 metres wide, contestants can sprint from right to left or left to right, and each shooter has a full magazine of 30 rounds. Three points for a clean kill, 2 points for a crippling wound and 1 point for a wound which doesn't stop the contestant moving. Ready on the left, ready on the right? OK, celebrities, lock and load . . ."
 
B

BambiBasher

Guest
#17
Tommo5050 said:
I don't care what the EU think, they can get stuffed, I don't visit their crappy countries and I never will if I can avoid it, which I have been able to do for 10 years now. Argh, I bloody hate do gooders, if you want to do good, bugger off to the stan and see how much good you'll do on live leak when you're having your head sawn off.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
 
#18
The major problem from afganistian is heroin thats whats doing the uk harm.Taleban isn't not that killing people who have those beliefs is wrong .
 

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