TA - Whats the Point

Discussion in 'The ARRSE Hole' started by conner, Nov 7, 2009.

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  1. Hi Guys,

    I tried & failed P Coy a few years back and in all honesty its bugged the shit out of me ever since! Anyway, as luck had it, failing meant instead of a holiday in a sandy place I got transferred abroad for a year with my job so in this instance failing did me good.

    Now I'm in the position where I could try again, given I'm in civil service now but I find myself asking why? Because if I do P Coy then I'll be in Afghanistan faster than a bloody regular - 8 weekends, 16 Tuesdays and away I go to fight the some turban wearing goat herder who's cut his teeth with the Russians!

    Now my point is not the rapid deployment to Afghanistan - my point is, if you're guaranteed to be sent to a war zone then your not really a reservist; your a fecking soldier getting part time money doing full time work.

    Its left me completely bamboozled because if your going to send me on a 6 month tour then why not just sign up full time?

    I guess that's my point and its made me consider just joining the regs. It seems like TA soldiers are not being used as reservists but as a cheap pool of full time labour and as much as I hate to say it, it has occurred to me that a previous argument about binning the TA may make sense - the TA is not a reservist pool but a steady stream of full time soldiers at half the price. Am I wrong in thinking this?

    All the best
  2. Whilst I'm at it. You TA are a bunch of wannabe commitmentphobic fuktards
  3. 49,451 members of arrse. 49,450 people think you're a cunt.

    i wonder if there's a connection :roll:
  4. Sixty

    Sixty LE Moderator Book Reviewer
    1. ARRSE Cyclists and Triathletes

    Maybe he's trying to break the record for the fastest ever re-banning of a restored username?

    I would 'phone Norris McWhirter.

    Were he not dead.
  5. Pondlife, go and tell that to the family of the RMP Cpl killed this week, or the widow whose husband was killed last year and left her and 5 teenage daughters with no father, or the numerous other TA and RAF reservists KIA in the sandpit and on Herrick.

    You are an oxygen thief and the lowest of the low. The postman is going to be weighed down with the white feathers being sent to you.
  6. No, you are a reservist. You are not "guaranteed to be sent", although the law allows that, the current practice is that you volunteer. Although, before he descended into inaccurate and pathetic abuse, smudge's point about why joining if you are not prepared to deploy, in the current environment, is valid.

    Each to their own but I've done my reg time, I am not prepared to recommit to full-time service and the pay cut, crap accom, Germany, etc, etc. There's a big difference between knowing that, some time in the next few years, you are going to do 8-9 months and a 3 or 4 year stint.

    Yes, you are wrong. For a start, we are not 'cheap' - in bean-counter terms. We have the civvie pay matching (and some of us earn lots outside of green - YMMV), the reserves' report showed that our infrastructure is ridiculously expensive (compared to the other volunteer reserves).

    Join the regs, then - there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. The TA fills a number of useful roles - specialists, especially the medics, and IRs, the formed units. Bin the TA, without both building up the Regular Army (something we have failed to do for a long time) and improving the career structures to allow proper recognition of specialities outside of the core military skills (something we have failed to do since the New Model Army), and there are going to be gaps. Maybe not gaps that would be filled by 4 Para, but gaps that will affect overall combat effectiveness.
  7. Idrach, I can see your point - but I'm not sure I agree with you.

    Conner, in my view, has articulated the end state with some clarity I think. Sad though it might be.

    I don't agree that the TA is 'expensive' - far from it.

    The whole concept of sending a TA soldier to Herrick with such little training (bear in mind, this training is the froth on the coffee, not the coffee - deep pervasive long term familiarity with matters military cannot be achieved in the current TA training schedule) is highly questionable and would not withstand any proper analysis. I have listened to very senior regular Officers concerned that that the TA may be going on Ops 'at risk'.

    What is the point of a broad and varied reserve if the only thing of any value, the only thing that is resourced properly, and the only thing that Units and men are measured by, is direct support to Operations?

    Change has happened - by osmosis - as people join with a different mindset.

    I have oft said - part time regulars or full time TA?. I aspire to the latter, but sadly, it increasingly looks like the former, and with none of the other support mechanisms available as compared to a regular soldier, it is on the cheap.
  8. Good post Conner though it reads like one of those planted letters in Soldier Magazine, designed to sniff the wind.

    Yes at the moment the TA is being used as a pool of very cheap labour, far cheaper than most of the MOD management can work out. The TA has supplied a stream of soldiers at far far less than half the price.

    Yes through gross underfunding by the government the Army has had to commit a sizable proportion of it's only usable reserve, and has not been able(or indeed willing) to constitute another reserve.

    There have been several instances in the last 100 years when some politician/general/opinionated short sighter has tried getting rid of the TA and they have always been proved wrong. When the London Jocks went into the line in 1914 they were all we had left. It was the TA that broadly enabled what was left of the Contemptables to hold the line in France through 1915. Chamberlain as Chancellor in the 30's wanted to get rid of the TA, (in 1932 he cancelled all Camps, and then the int people changed their mind about no war for 10 years) and then five years later used it as a means of rapidly increasing the size of the Army in 1938/39.

    The TA helped with GW1 and without the TA GW2 could not have happened.

    The TA is a relatively cheap and flexible insurance policy. No one likes paying insurance until they need to make a claim. I would suggest that the security of this country is too precious a commodity not to have it insured.

    I would even go so far as to suggest that the TA should be increased in order to take over and maintain capability that we as a nation may need in the future but don't need now. How many regular air defence regiments do we have. Give the kit to the TA and re role most of the manpower into the infantry. With the gunners running the UAVs they could still maintain the necessary levels of skill in battlespace management. Three Lt Col and eight majors posts saved straight away.
  9. Bit of a clue in his username maybe :?
  10. Idrach don’t be taken in by the MOD statistics on the TA. There are lies, damn lies and anything the MOD says when it wants to make a point.

    The fixed costs for the TA are;

    The estate (Drill halls etc)

    The hired help (PSAOs, NRPS, PSIs, etc)

    RTMC – comes off the TA budget.

    The estate is necessary to keep the TA territorial and as close to the civvi population as possible. Money could be saved closing it all down and using regular facilities but then one would have to spend more money in recruiting (and there would have to be an awful lot of recruiting done) and transporting people to and from the facilities.

    The hired help could take cuts. A PSAO to every sub unit is an extravagance, but then the first ten years of my service we didn’t have PSAOs. When they came they were excellent for doing the accounts and war stories and er, er, er! Seriously each PSAO should be able to handle two subunits, maintain the accounts themselves and supervise all other clerical activity. Keep moving them around the sub units ( easier done if they are not tied to one unit) after two years and the potential for fraud would be reduced. The only loser here would be the local golf course.

    RTMC is there to serve the regular army by supplying it with reservists to a set standard. So put it onto the regular army budget. If you don’t want to put it there at least charge the regular army for every time regulars use it.

    Slash the number of TA higher ranks. In my cold war days when we had a TA of 75000 ish, there were two TA brigadiers, (allowed 25 days per year) and a group of Colonels who were allowed 12 days per year. We are now less than what? 30000 and how many Brigadiers and Colonels do we have and how many days are they allowed to claim.? Oh and don’t promote a major ‘cos he is qualified, only promote them if they have a command appt to go to.

    One final point mate. Go here and read what Regulars really say about their pay and conditions http://www.arrse.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic/t=137316/start=0.html
  11. commitmentphobe? Like holding down a full time job and doing an arduous part-time job that could get you killed - all while trying to live a quality family life

    That's real commitment
  12. If you wanted to stir controversy (which I don't) you would suggest that 50 years ago we should have gone the other way - a dramatic expansion of "the TA" and the creation of one army.

    In other words, something much closer to the old "half pay" system for officers extended across all ranks, so that unless there was actually a war on most people would be doing (say) 60-80 days a year across Friday-Monday, with a very small cadre of regulars for the things which really do need 365 days a year to master.

    Almost all soldiers would then have another job, a proper home, two decent salaries....
  13. If it's too hot in the kitchen........
  14. Its even colder in Bosnia.