TA UNIT SUPPORTING BADMINTON HORSE TRIALS

chimera

LE
Moderator
#1
Who were this lot?
 
#2
Royal Wessex Yeomanry.... why?
 
#3
Keeps the Army in the Public Eye (KAPE) to an audience of 350,000 at a very low man power cost. Small amounts of recruiting and keeps the retd Generals of Glos happy, I imagine.
 

chimera

LE
Moderator
#5
Wyvern said:
Royal Wessex Yeomanry.... why?
Very scruffy. It is possible to look smart in CS 95 with a bit of effort, some boot polish, and an iron. These guys failed badly.

And a couple of officers trying to pose in SD by the water complex who should realise that if you want to try and impress the birds, try either either wearing a uniform that FITS, or eat fewer pies.

If the idea was to put the Army in the Public Eye (see post above) then this is not the image we want to be seen.

Sorry to be negative.
 
#6
If my memory serves me correctly, an RLC Regiment provides the arena personnel for the Horse of the Year Show at the NEC in Octoberr. They look very smart in Boots, C95 Trousers, Navy Blue tracksuit tops with the Regiment Number and RLC on the back, topped off with berets. I don't know how much they enjoyed the work but they were sharp, looked the part and had good leadership. Overall a good advertisement for the RLC and the Army in general.
 
#7
I hope this thread is wrong, I'm having enough trouble getting fit for the run and if I'm going to have to get over hurdles as well then I'm stuffed!

They shoot padres don't they;-)?

P
 
#8
our Sqn were all v smart.... we tried! N if we weren't completely up to scratch it was cos we'd been totally arsed around the night before, I'd had 1 hrs sleep the night b4 and jack all time to sort kit in the morning. And our officers' kit was smart& fitted..you obviously didn't see everone... we were on the visit ireland quarry, can't remember who was over by the lake.
 
#9
I have to say that the RWxY personnel I saw at Badminton did look a bit scruffy. I would support the shoe polish comment and although I did not see any officers on the day, there was one Sergeant there who I would RTU if he reported dressed like that for a course!
 
#10
marabout said:
Keeps the Army in the Public Eye (KAPE) to an audience of 350,000 at a very low man power cost. Small amounts of recruiting and keeps the retd Generals of Glos happy, I imagine.
Sorry, but this sort of nonsense sends exactly 100% of the wrong message.

1. It gives the impression we have the time and man-power to devote to this sort of thing. RWxY MTD budget flush is it ?

2. It gives an impression of the Army as still being run by the "County Set" - OK maybe it is but we should not go out of our way to advertise the fact.

3. It can give an impression of the soldiery as spare "humpers and dumpers". Were they doing the comms, running the stats tent - or just putting poles back in place ?

4. Of the 350k "audience" - how many were potential recruits ? High quality targetting in action there, I think not.

Better things to support if we must - Triathlons, Marathons, Football, dirt-bikes . Stuff where we will be seen by blokes aged 18-25. Not events aimed at the middled aged and horsey.

rant off.
 
#11
Trossachs said:
4. Of the 350k "audience" - how many were potential recruits ? High quality targetting in action there, I think not.

Better things to support if we must - Triathlons, Marathons, Football, dirt-bikes . Stuff where we will be seen by blokes aged 18-25. Not events aimed at the middled aged and horsey.

rant off.
NAIL HEAD!!
My TA unit do some recruiting events and they are, in my opinion, the worng ones as stated above. They are done because:

1.These events ask
2.It requires no thought, just spout "recruiting" as to why you need to go

Instead of visiting traditional events or events that the old and bold think would be good ask the guys who are in the target age group or the newest recruits in the door. How did they find out about it? What made them join?
 
#12
Trossachs said:
Sorry, but this sort of nonsense sends exactly 100% of the wrong message.
I disagree, to be honest, so I'll provide my counterpoints.

Trossachs said:
1. It gives the impression we have the time and man-power to devote to this sort of thing. RWxY MTD budget flush is it ?
In order to get a budget, the Government must first give a budget. As the government is ruled by public opinion to a greater or lesser degree, it makes sound sense to build up public opinion. It's a whole lot more pro active than sitting back at the TAC bemoaning the lack of recruits and funding.

Trossachs said:
2. It gives an impression of the Army as still being run by the "County Set" - OK maybe it is but we should not go out of our way to advertise the fact.
The MoD spends a substantial amount of time and resources running around those very same areas that the "country set" live in. If there is one area of the population who deserves our thanks, it's that group of people for continuing to support the MoD and it's training areas. As for advertising the fact that the Army is made up of groups of people who spend a lot of time in the countryside, I don't see how that is a negative in any way.

Trossachs said:
3. It can give an impression of the soldiery as spare "humpers and dumpers". Were they doing the comms, running the stats tent - or just putting poles back in place ?
The majority of the population would just stare blankly at a comms setup, and probably wonder why we don't just use mobile phones! The majority of equipment no longer looks impressive, it looks archaic. I don't know about you, but a smart soldier mucking in with civilian activities always looks impressive to me. It also helps reinforce that bond that the public have with the armed forces.

Trossachs said:
4. Of the 350k "audience" - how many were potential recruits ? High quality targetting in action there, I think not.
And how many were Ex regs? How many veterans were out there? How many have family in the armed forces? I agree that it's unlikely that any single event will produce a sudden influx of new recruits, but simply being outside/approachable/visible goes a long way to putting the thought in peoples minds to join up.

Trossachs said:
Better things to support if we must - Triathlons, Marathons, Football, dirt-bikes . Stuff where we will be seen by blokes aged 18-25. Not events aimed at the middled aged and horsey.
I completely agree with your suggestion of other events as well as adventure racing, skiing, rugby, athletics, university open days etc. However you have to agree that a fella who grew up in the countryside who enjoys outdoor pursuits may well be better suited to the green than a city kid who's a good middle distance runner. The army needs allsorts, and needs to be representative of that when they go out into the public to recruit.

It was the armys presence at such events that provided my initial contact with recruiting, and I'd probably have seen the process of joining up a whole lot more formidable if it haven't been for that. I realise that's not true of many people who join up, but I'm certain it's true of some.
 
#13
milkandcheese said:
Trossachs said:
Sorry, but this sort of nonsense sends exactly 100% of the wrong message.
I disagree, to be honest, so I'll provide my counterpoints.

Effectively you are saying "Better to do something for nice people who already like us than do nothing". Thats true BUT - would it not be better to do something targeted ? The county set already support us so "saying thanks" is nice and polite but really a waste of time. As for the "veterans and families" argument - by that reasoning we should be bidding to organise a nice garden party at Chelsea Hosital.

Get a grip. We have very limited resources, they should be very highly targeted, not squandered on events which are at the least nugatory and actually very likely to be damaging to our image.
 
#14
Trossachs said:
1. It gives the impression we have the time and man-power to devote to this sort of thing. RWxY MTD budget flush is it ?
That's because this is a specified weekend for the Regiment each year, just as other Units provide cover for Ten Tors etc. RWxY has supported this event for decades, C Sqn "The Royal Gloucestershire Hussars" when previosuly a Regiment in it's own right having previously been commanded by the Duke of Beaufort upon who's land this annual event is organised.

Trossachs said:
3. It can give an impression of the soldiery as spare "humpers and dumpers". Were they doing the comms, running the stats tent - or just putting poles back in place ?
RWxY is involved in operating comms for the "Tracks & Fields" section, Sector Controls and Stopping Judges and involved in Main Control.

Oh and yes Yeomanry does mean horses :wink:
 
#15
Cherrypicker said:
Trossachs said:
1. It gives the impression we have the time and man-power to devote to this sort of thing. RWxY MTD budget flush is it ?
That's because this is a specified weekend for the Regiment each year, just as other Units provide cover for Ten Tors etc. RWxY has supported this event for decades, C Sqn "The Royal Gloucestershire Hussars" when previosuly a Regiment in it's own right having previously been commanded by the Duke of Beaufort upon who's land this annual event is organised.

FFS WHY. 10 Tors I can see - its a youth event losely connected with military "skills" like walking a long way with a big bag over nasty hills. Its also on or near MOD training Area etc etc - but a Horse Trial ???? The fact that its held on the Dukes land, Ex CO etc just smacks of mis-use of MTDs.

Trossachs said:
3. It can give an impression of the soldiery as spare "humpers and dumpers". Were they doing the comms, running the stats tent - or just putting poles back in place ?
RWxY is involved in operating comms for the "Tracks & Fields" section, Sector Controls and Stopping Judges and involved in Main Control.

Glad to hear it was not all manual labour then....

Oh and yes Yeomanry does mean horses :wink:
Give Dobbin a carrot for me.
 
#16
The officers in this mob have a thing about dressing up in stupid costumes,saw one of them at a skiing event in his plus fours.
Still no excuse for the soldiers looking like a bag of s..te, lack of personal standards and seniors not gripping said scruff bags
 
#17
Trossachs said:
Effectively you are saying "Better to do something for nice people who already like us than do nothing".
Thats true BUT - would it not be better to do something targeted ?
I'm unsure what you are driving at really. I know 'targeted' is a bit of a buzzword, but tbh I think that the horse trials are a fine example of a targeted area.

Trossachs said:
The county set already support us so "saying thanks" is nice and polite but really a waste of time. As for the "veterans and families" argument - by that reasoning we should be bidding to organise a nice garden party at Chelsea Hosital.
The country set are not all ex public school boys. There is a large an thriving population outside of the big citys, not a wasteland fully of garden party toffs. Honestly, you really aught to consider that over two thirds of the UK population lives outside of a city. And of those two thirds, a sizable amount are geared up to living and working on the land. That to me seems a pretty decent set to be liasing with for potential recruits, rather than city kids tempted in from shopping centers.

Trossachs said:
Get a grip. We have very limited resources, they should be very highly targeted, not squandered on events which are at the least nugatory and actually very likely to be damaging to our image.
Honestly, I'm not sure if you intend to but you are projecting an image of a person who has a real problem with 'toffs' and the ilk. That is your problem, and not the armies. You seem to be pushing for inner city recruiting against all the available data on the quality of recruits from those areas, and the attrition rates of recruits from urban areas.

Quite simply, I think you are pushing the social divide between officers and NCOs onto civilian recruiting areas and its something that I'm not at all comfortable with. It's not even realistic, as both sets are drawn from all backgrounds and areas of the land.
 
#18
milkandcheese said:
Trossachs said:
Effectively you are saying "Better to do something for nice people who already like us than do nothing".
Thats true BUT - would it not be better to do something targeted ?
I'm unsure what you are driving at really. I know 'targeted' is a bit of a buzzword, but tbh I think that the horse trials are a fine example of a targeted area.

You are joking ? What % of the attendance at a Horse Trial will be potential recruits ? Nice folks, certainly, most on-side anyway but "targeted" ?? No way.

Trossachs said:
The county set already support us so "saying thanks" is nice and polite but really a waste of time. As for the "veterans and families" argument - by that reasoning we should be bidding to organise a nice garden party at Chelsea Hosital.
The country set are not all ex public school boys. There is a large an thriving population outside of the big citys, not a wasteland fully of garden party toffs. Honestly, you really aught to consider that over two thirds of the UK population lives outside of a city. And of those two thirds, a sizable amount are geared up to living and working on the land. That to me seems a pretty decent set to be liasing with for potential recruits, rather than city kids tempted in from shopping centers.

[ I grew up in the country, my home is still in the country and I spent last weekend at a country fair. How many of the "living and working on the land" lads are up for joining the TA ? Very few. Too many country jobs involve weekend working, farming, tourism or "country persuits" - all involve weekend working making TA recruiting difficult. Add transport issues for the youngsters and its a loser.

Trossachs said:
Get a grip. We have very limited resources, they should be very highly targeted, not squandered on events which are at the least nugatory and actually very likely to be damaging to our image.
Honestly, I'm not sure if you intend to but you are projecting an image of a person who has a real problem with 'toffs' and the ilk. That is your problem, and not the armies. You seem to be pushing for inner city recruiting against all the available data on the quality of recruits from those areas, and the attrition rates of recruits from urban areas.

Phew, I think its you who has a problem with kids from the city. I've no problem with "Toffs", nor do I advocate recruiting only from the inner cities. My suggestions were for recruiting targeted on events likely to be supported by 18-25 yo males, no location given nor implied. I do have a problem with an event that could easily look like TA soldiers being used as cheap labour for "His Lordship" and the old boy net.

I'll say it once more. Given a limited MTD budget we should pick our recruiting venues carefully, targeting those likley to involve as many potential recruits as possible. Horse Trials would be unlikely to make the top 10.



Quite simply, I think you are pushing the social divide between officers and NCOs onto civilian recruiting areas and its something that I'm not at all comfortable with. It's not even realistic, as both sets are drawn from all backgrounds and areas of the land.
Sorry, I think its the other way round. In the eyes of Joe Public "Horsey" events are not seen as egalitarian, they are seen as the home of the "County Set" like it or not. Supporting them simply perpetuates the myth of "Toff" officers.
 

Attachments

#19
*picks carefully out of the threads*

What you just said:
Trossachs said:
Phew, I think its you who has a problem with kids from the city. I've no problem with "Toffs", nor do I advocate recruiting only from the inner cities. My suggestions were for recruiting targeted on events likely to be supported by 18-25 yo males, no location given nor implied.

For my first post:
Trossachs said:
Better things to support if we must - Triathlons, Marathons, Football, dirt-bikes . Stuff where we will be seen by blokes aged 18-25. Not events aimed at the middled aged and horsey.
milkandcheese wrote:
I completely agree with your suggestion of other events as well as adventure racing, skiing, rugby, athletics, university open days etc. However you have to agree that a fella who grew up in the countryside who enjoys outdoor pursuits may well be better suited to the green than a city kid who's a good middle distance runner. The army needs allsorts, and needs to be representative of that when they go out into the public to recruit.
Gosh, would you look at that. It's almost as if you keep arguing the one point that I specifically said I agreed on. Spooky.

We do, as an organisation, aim to target certain traditional areas. Like it or not, that is the way it is. Considerable effort is devoted to ensuring that the general public forms and retains a neutral, and preferably favorable, image of the armed forces. To paraphrase something I read 'Recruting is not always actively pursued. The diffusion of information about the armed forces in the community is seen to sow valuable seeds which may generate a response in a later more direct recruting response'. Recruiting is not about how many people sign on the line while you man a stand.

What I'm not saying is we should focus all attention on one section of the public. What I am saying is diversification of recruting methods should not be at the expense of the more traditional areas, as I think it will have an adverse affect on the organisation.

I'm simply advocating my opinion that recruiting must always be diverse, representative of the recruits themselves. Now, however you choose to respond, please understand that the chances of you convincing me that my opinion is incorrect is very remote. I already knew the chances of convincing you were very remote, all I did was present the other side of the argument. I did this because you are so adamant that you are correct, where I know there are many shades of grey to every point you try and put forward as black and white.

Mind you, just becasue of that photo, I might add that I am absurdly tempted to add anacdotes about the quality of 32 sig recruits. I've had one bend my ear for an hour about his 1337 knife fighting skills, despite all attempts to shut him up, followed up by the traditional unending explanation of all the martial arts he knows. I was severely tempted to test him out with my bar stool.
 
#20
milkandcheese said:
*picks carefully out of the threads*

What you just said:
Trossachs said:
Phew, I think its you who has a problem with kids from the city. I've no problem with "Toffs", nor do I advocate recruiting only from the inner cities. My suggestions were for recruiting targeted on events likely to be supported by 18-25 yo males, no location given nor implied.

For my first post:
Trossachs said:
Better things to support if we must - Triathlons, Marathons, Football, dirt-bikes . Stuff where we will be seen by blokes aged 18-25. Not events aimed at the middled aged and horsey.
milkandcheese wrote:
I completely agree with your suggestion of other events as well as adventure racing, skiing, rugby, athletics, university open days etc. However you have to agree that a fella who grew up in the countryside who enjoys outdoor pursuits may well be better suited to the green than a city kid who's a good middle distance runner. The army needs allsorts, and needs to be representative of that when they go out into the public to recruit.
Gosh, would you look at that. It's almost as if you keep arguing the one point that I specifically said I agreed on. Spooky.

Not really. You continue to defend the Horse Trials as a good recruiting/PR effort. I think its a waste of MTD on both fronts and judging from some of the earlier posts others agree with me. - How many other events did RWxY support in the same strength ? You fail to answer the points about reinforcing an incorrect public image and continue to bang on about the advantages of the country lad vs the townie, The country lad is unlikely to join for the reasons stated, the bored townie just might. As for the ninja walt from 32, well thats life, we cannot all be perfect.
 

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