Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by polar, Oct 18, 2004.
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From last weeks Times
WHT or APWT?
"Lance-Corporal Blaymire, from Leeds, initially failed two sections of the eight-part weapons handling test."
i have heard about this.
bad very bad
a weapons test isn't exactly rocket science. even my own, i passed with a skill.
That's what was reported
However, have they confused the WHT with the APWT?
APWT's are not held at Chilwell, the range isn't big enough. The APWT is held at Grantham I think. During the peak of mobilisation there would have been no chance for the RTMC staff to run 250 APWT's a day.
One of my Ta soldiers when deployed via Chilwell, reported back after his tour and told me quite categorically that not only did he not pass his APWT, he didnt even attempt it, he is a poo shot! after 150 rounds trying to zero they gave up!
He deployed as top cover on the Rover's
No such thing as a poo shot, just a poo instructor
zeroed with 150 rounds? only adjusted his sights 6 times then?
everyone with the right motivation, instruction and effort is more than able to achieve a good pass on the APWT and a skilled pass on the WHT
theoretically the soldier passed his training tests to gain his bounty foir the last god knows how many years......[/quote]
Unfortunately not an isolated incident at Chillwell.
I know of another soldier, deployed to theatre with an SA 80, but had never even received a lesson on the weapon!!! ( with good reasons I may add but not prepared to say due to the PERSEC of the individual).
Taken out the back during WHT at Grantham and given 2 hours crammed instruction - managed to pass the WHT then onto the range and managed to hit the target - PASS!
Bottom line is that the individual was bullied by staff at Chilwell to take the weapon, despite complaining up the chain of command.
Knew this would come back to haunt the Army.
i totally agree , in my instructors course i was told those same words ,no bad students only bad instructors
EVERYBODY is capable of passing anything, some are a little slow on the take up but they do get there in the end , all you need is time and thats seems to be something we are a bit short of
Ah, excellent! Haven't been back in ages, and the first post I read is from the artist formerly known as Vespa! How are you old son?
This guy is a L/Cpl and is, by definition, a little better than average soldier (at least he should be. I had to work my rocks off to make L/Bdr and demonstrate to all and sundry that I was better than the average squaddie!). I don't know if he was in an Infantry Regt or nor but if he was, then he must have at least been taught basic weapons handling skills? This would have emphasised 'safety at all times' or it was when I was serving. The gut is a cnut and deserves to do a long stretch (which by todays standards, should see him released after the trial due to time served on remand and good behaviour).
In response to G11
Whilst i also agree, having spent an entire weekend on the range with him post tour, and having watched him go from not only correctly zeroing his weapon but also pasing the APWT with a damn good score, i then watched him clean up in a competition shoot out of all those attending much to his own amazement and in real good drizzly shooting weather
The fact still remains that even the best instructor will have a damn hard job on his hands trying to get someone through a zero and an APWT in such a short time frame when, in basic the lad didnt even fire a weapon 'live' and also for the 2 years prior to his tour he only had to pass the Zero and attempt the APWT to gain his bounty
Fortunately nothing bad came of it as the guy is a really committed lad who loves soldiering, however it could have all gone horribly wrong out there for him if it hadnt been for the fact that little details like only having to "attempt" it and the lack of time allocated for it in the first place seem to be common-place.
Indeed if we only pay lip service to issues like this then we might as well sack the weapons lessons and just bomb people up with a nice certificate saying they know which end to point where
Is this normal in the TA or just a local thing ?
It's an 'Annual (!) Personal Weapons TEST' FFS !
Hardly the lad's fault if he's not had adequate instruction, but he's been given money for reaching a minimum level of trg. Or not in this case.
Is it a question of the Head Shed needing a certain amount of bods to 'prove' their instrs are up to scratch ?
Arrses need kicking, and the higher up the chain of command the better !
Another question is how many got the chance to re-zero their weapons in theatre ?
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