TA soldiers passed over for promotion

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by Dilfor, Sep 25, 2006.

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  1. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/09/25/nsoldiers25.xml

    Can someone point me in the direction of the thread on which this has been discussed?

    Having sat on a number of recent promotion boards, this suggestion rather suprises me.

    I am of course aware of some 'old school' types who view ops as a distraction from the real business of competitions etc (as discussed here ad infinitum), but do not believe that this is widespread or affects career progression.

    Either way, another negative story about the TA.
  2. Well you cant get time off on tour to do a promotion course so it is going to set your promotion back at least a year if not more .Dont think there has been a thread on it but it has been mentioned in various threads .Cant see
    a way round it myself .Unless you make moblisation a critera for promotion :D .
  3. Unfortuantly I think this is true. Certainly in my unit those of us that have been on Tour have been left behind.

    I came back with a cracking CR recomending me for promotion and have I received it!!!

    The people that stayed behind seem to have got on very well!! Going on Tour seems to effect your career in the TA!!
  4. OldSnowy

    OldSnowy LE Moderator Book Reviewer

    When we returned from TELIC 2 I tried to ensure that those who had been away did not suffer like this - quite the reverse, as 7 months practising your Trade day in day out must be seen as a positive thing. From a REME viewpoint, my Blokes were, almost without exception, extremely well qualified for promotion on their return. A few who failed to cut it were found out, but that's what was expected.

    However, there is still the requirement to do the Promotion Course, without which you can't get the Stripe or whatever - but that isn't a TA requirement - it's the same for the Regs as well!

    Is this an Inf problem, or more general? This sounds like either a case of some old-style Infantry OCs still running things, or more anti-TA propaganda (or more likley, a combination of the two).
  5. its a general problem - and it's nothing to do witrh promotion courses. A guy who's qualified for promotion but hasn't yet been promoted cannot be promoted by his host unit on mobilisation (i believe) and his real ta unit cannot prromote him because he is, for the mob period, not on their books.

    You know the score - it doesn't take a rocket scientisrt to solve this one, so it will never be solved - and even a rocket scirentist would be buggered by the APC system!!
  6. This is not limited to the TA, it can effect a reg as well if you deploy in small groups.

    I myself fell foul of that when the Regt was warned for Cyprus but a few of us had a role in Bosnia, guys who went to Cyprus had glowing CR's and promotion followed as they were "with the Regt" and thus in the bosses eyes, whereas us guys got shite CR's that even ignored glowing inserts becuase we were NOT in the Regt's eyes

    The worse thing that happened was one lad got passed over for Staffy for an absolute tool of a man, the passed over Sgt X had just completed 2 tours in Bosnia in a 18 month period, (UNPROFOR & IFOR) and this was when they were flinging bits of metal around. He was so incensed at being passed over he raised a grevience to find out why the overweight tour dodging workshy bluffer Sgt Y got his Staffy and was told that the CO rated him but had no exposure to Sgt X, "What exposure had the CO to Sgt Y ?" he asked "Why he went sailing with him" the Adjt replied

    This isn't the only occasion I have seen this, I remember guys set up for promotion courses only for them to be stopped for "Operational Reasons" this resulted in guys on rear party getting freebies, one was even a Lance Jacks course that an underage (for tour) sprog got on, the poor lad had to wait for another year before a place came up
  7. Does it?

    The soldier deploying won't attend career courses to allow them to be selected for promotion (its unlikely hosting unit will allow them to attend courses while mobilised) and while they are mobilised the parent TA unit can't promote them.
  8. I have seen this happen numerous time in my unit.

    Since i have returned to my unit, it shocks me to see just who has been promoted in my absence.

    I have been made to feel like I am stupid for volunteering for mobilised service which ultimately is what we are there for.

    LeBuzzer is right. You cannot get promoted whilst mobilised and in your absence they promote the "Best of the Rest"
  9. irish doris - tme to change unit. any decent unit knows all it's soldiers and will look at all of them, at home, abroad, whatever, and promote (or prepare to promote) those who are up to the mark
  10. Actually, its not just tours that can shaft you, I went on an extensive course (which resulted in 6 months away from unit) as one on the top 10 full screws in the Regt. I came back to find new unit OC's and WO and a new CO and magically found myself in the bottom third of my units NCO's, figure that one out. Bitter moi :x No-one seem to think it was strange that one of the "junior" Full Screws had EFP either, they even tried to promote one lad who hadn't done it in my absence

    Going away for Operational, self improvement or even a nice change for whatever period of time is often seen as desertion of the unit
  11. chrisg46

    chrisg46 LE Book Reviewer

    On the other hand, you can get some people get sent on promotion courses purely cos they went on a tour, when in fact they are complete and utter tools.

  12. You may be right, but then, will i not be at the bottom of the list yet again??

    Another reason why people are being passed over for promotion is the influx of personnel from disbanded units. They are lured into units with promises of promotion etc. I have seen this happen before. Or they are to ensure they are trade trained to class 1 standard of their new trade within a certain time frame ( i think it's two years) to keep their rank.

    But do you think they have acheived that standard a good few years later?

    No they have not.

    It is one rule for one, and one rule for everyone else. It seems they only enforce the eligibility for promotion on personnel who were original members of the unit. For others they are willing to 'bend' the rules.
  13. Very true, also I have come accross incidents where a tour was used to substitute a course, especially in leadership
  14. IrishDoris

    This is going to sound glib (and is not intended to put anyone's back up), but if you feel hard done-by there is a procedure under AGAI 70 to seek redress. Whilst in the good old bad old days, promotions could be manipulated or abused, the new system of boarding as per the Regular system should take out most of the potential for unfairness. You are only considered if you are qualified (clearly this doesn't address the valid concerns about not qualifying whilst on ops) and then only your CRs - including Insert Slips - are considered by a Board who then grade you. The Board may well not know you. Accordingly, failure to be promoted (other than through not being qualified) will be down to not having the right CR. Whilst CRs are necessarily subjective, if you are not happy with yours, discuss with the Reporting Officer why not. If still not happy, you can seek redress.
  15. I found that this type of thing was just as prevelent in the regular army too. I spent a few tours attached to other units and recevied stonking grades and CR's only to have they ignored by my parent unit upon my return. Or to have an excellent grade and CR destroyed by the unit you are attached to because they want to get their own bods promoted. It didn't stop my parent unit promoting almost the entire golf team who stayed at home one year though.