TA Review and the Gunners

Discussion in 'Gunners' started by HVM_Boy, Mar 21, 2008.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. So, how will the TA review affect the 7 TA gunner regiments then?

    I note that the blurb from the MoD said this...

    That made me think about what niche capabilites we have, which should possibly be suited to the TA, rather than the regulars - and the obvious answer is Air Defence.

    The 3 AD regts (less a bty of 16 in the Falklands) arecurrently employed out of role - mostly in their tertiary role of UAVs. Air defence is a capability which simply is not used anymore, but is an insurance policy that any governement would be foolish to abandon.

    Perhaps a solution is to make AD the preserve of the TA - perhaps 2 regt's worth, 1 with HVM/LML Stormer and the other Rapier. This would free up the Regular Regts (which will prob go down to two if 12 & 47 merge) to concentrate on what is in demand - UAVs.

    Do you think this is a likely scenario? As per the scope of the review I think it would fit right in with the govt's strategy. As for the TA, I wouldn't fancy being in a regt which would have to rerole from guns to AD. Particularly after the last review of the TA reroled 2 AD regiments (105 to Lt Gun, and 104 to UAVs) ! :roll:

    Any thoughts...?

    And what about the other TA regts? TA gunners are in just as much demand as anyone else on Ops. Other than a closer integration with regular regts (ie TA btys on regular regt orbats), and more kit (see below) I'm not sure what else could be done.

    With the rerole of 19 & 40 to Lt Gun, the 3 TA Lt gun regts have lost (and quite rightly) their guns to regular regts. My suggestion is for the 2 Regular regiments to be equipped with a 155mm Lt Howitzer, such as the M777. Thus freeing up the equipemtn for TA gunners to train on, and giving the regulars the bigger punch that they need...



    /stands back with fingers in ears

    [edited due to my fliddiness at typing]
  2. the_boy_syrup

    the_boy_syrup LE Book Reviewer

    Should AD go back to RAF Regiment?
    Given airfield defence is their Bread and Butter work should they re equip the ex rapier sqns?
    This would enable TA to still provide gunners as cover for ops etc
    Are we ever going to be anywhere where we require AD?
  3. yes, airfield defence could be classed as an RAF Regt task, but protecting troops, Bde or Div HQs, or armd vehs on the front line from CAS aircraft I would suggest should be firmly in the hands of the Army.

    AD may never be used again, but it simply cannot be chucked away like an insurance policy that we havent used since 1982. What if the Taliban start crashing Cessnas into Mastifs in Afganistan!!?? We'd be screwed!

    So, Rapier to the RAF and HVM to stay the Army, with the majority of the fire units in TA regts?

    Sounds good to me.
  4. Air Defence is a traditional TA activity, its going over to the RAF in the 50's caused one of the major cutbacks in the TA. Should it come solely back to the TA? Yes and frack the crabs
  5. I think that the UAV role should go to the RAF Reg and keep the flying thingy in house.
  6. Auld-Yin

    Auld-Yin LE Reviewer Book Reviewer Reviews Editor

    Sorry to take this slightly off thread, but why did the statement have to include this?

    It makes it sound like the support was not wholehearted.
  7. Although I can understand the argument in making AD a pure TA role I feel it sort of conflicts with point b

    If you make this role totally TA simply because its not being used (in the current climate) then you will end up with 2-3 regiments of reserve soldiers without deployable skills beyond basic soldiering and probably sigs, What if your a HVM Det Commander for example, there is no way you could retrain in the pre-deployment period to fill a similar role and this will mean yet again the only people to mobilise will be Gunners. Currently we have a couple lads away who did have to retrain, but then again so did the entire Bty, their mobilisation period was extended to match this and even then they are doing the lowest key roles, the Det Cmdr types already had spent several months learning the system before they arrived.

    So to fulfill point B would it not make more sense to have TA Gunner Regiments which are either Guns, OP/FST, MLRS, STA and UAV to match the current demand ?
  8. Having just taken AD off of the Rock Apes, it wouldn't surprise me if it went back to them...

    Do we use/have we used AD in anger for a while - no, but we keep the capability and TA units have proved in the last 5 years especially that they can augment/backfill the Reg Regts superbly, but perhaps couldn't if they filled different trades (or you just had a bunch of Generic RA TA blokes).

    I thought one of the rumours about TA was that they would become purely specialist types - engineers, doctors, nurses, signals specialists etc, which would free up stuff in the Regs that is hard to support when there are only 3 of them in the whole of the Army.
  9. Question

    What do you mean by specialist ?

    Do you mean specialist trade taught in the army or trades held as a civilian ?

    If its the former then you have to consider the extreme time it takes to train a TA soldier and drop out rate will probably make it hard to retain

    If its the latter then what do you do with the overwhelming majority of TA soldiers whose civilian job has zero military leaning ?

    Again I ask the question, if the TA becomes a specialist organisation then what will happen when the regs get desperate for troops and no-one has any transferable trades beyond rad-op/rifleman ?
  10. The Gunner CoC do not know what to do with the TA.. SDR killed the TA Gunner and its close liaison with Regular Gunner Regiments. Equipment has dwindled, levels of training cut, even trade courses have fallen below the levels of acceptability from integration into the Regular Force. Since 1999, TA Gunner numbers (retention) have fallend sharply, reflecting a lack of belief in the role.. but still, the CoC ignored the signs.. preferring instead to listen to Regular Officers (some of whom were TA CO's) painting a completely different picture. Either get a working group together who know what they are talking about and want to change and improve the situation or Kill the TA Gunner completely and use the Australians instead!
  11. A good point, if MOD announced a review then I for one would never assume that the heads of the three armed services had not been either consulted nor indeed where not in approval!

    Personally I assume there will be the usual reduction in numbers and units. RA TA officers will be told sorry that's it. They will be welcomed with open arms by other units. In a short period of time there will be a surprised cry that golly, we seem to have not enough officers. Those who are young enough will be asked if they would like to come back. The proverbial two fingers of scorn will be offered...like last time.

    Personally I went over to the Scaleys...

    It is enough to make an archbishop kick a hole in a stained glass window - if he wasn't too busy making peace with the forces of Beelzebub and organising a mulit-faith coffee-morning with Satanists that is...