TA R Sigs UK Ops - Class 2 anyone?

#1
Hi All,

Is it just my Regiment, or does trade training seem to stop after class 3?

Since the introduction of workbooks i don't know of anyone who has moved onto class 2. There just aren't enough training opportunities to practice using the kit, and skill fade/presence of newbies means that every practical exercise we go on quickly degenerates into an outdoor theory lesson.

As it's impossible to teach and test skills on the same weekend due to limited time/no of Instr's, this means that no progess is being made in trade books. As promotion is linked to trade quals, this means that after this current batch of Sgt's move on up, we'll have no-one to replace them, we've ran out of Class 1's to promote.

Does anyone else have any experience of this? I'd be interested in hearing how other units approach trade training. Need to stop the rot.

TB
 
#2
Dont know - my squadron gets some opportunity to get my training in.

I don't have a trade book because it is being re-written, but based on the old one, I should be able to go class 2 sometime in February/March when the next trade course comes up.

As long as I stop soldering my troop staffy's tools together for a laugh.
 
#3
hi mate,

i am hoping to start class2 soon. i spoke to the yoemen (sp) at the sqdn and the psi - not sure much else on the matter.

its very much in your hands i believe

what regiment are you in?
 
#4
TopBadger said:
Is it just my Regiment, or does trade training seem to stop after class 3?
It doesn't stop but moves over to OJT (On the Job Training) :lol:

I did some analysis on the new trade workbook and it implies about 20 odd lessons plus a weekend of NCRS. Regt delivers the NCRS training so thats sorted, my sqn should be able to sort out the other subject but only after we merge with another sqn. I've also just got the new ED and Tech workbooks but they seem to be rather simple, so all EDs and techs could be signed off this month.

However we have a couple who will never be able to complete their class 2 workbook, the experience and training they get is too short and too complex. My boss wants to turn EDs into operators and I, because of the complexity of the operator trade want them changed to EDs. Unfortunatley officers see these people skills as a reflection on all operators, you couldn't guess how many times I've been 'taught' how to connect a modem and PC up.

Good news is most of the above was discussed a week or two back (if our YofS remembered it all).
 
#5
Polar

Silly question, but don't suppose there is somewhere that I can get access to the new Tech workbook? Preferably on-line. (If the only chance is my squadron SPSI I will probably grow a third leg before I get a copy of it)
 
#6
bazz, from what I've seen from your posts, your in a Ptarmigan unit and 12 Sigs Grps RLI site will be of no use to you.
 
#7
it doesnt just happen at TA units, as a regular we still struggle to do trade. to many dick jobs. it ends up like you said as the few exercise we get on end up as teach phases instead of bein revision and advancement.
 
#8
polar said:
It doesn't stop but moves over to OJT (On the Job Training)
Thats how its supposed to happen, sure. At the moment its not though, because there doesn't seem to be enough time in the year to do the job. Exercises should be based around taking kit out and using it for extended periods of time. If i were to be asked to take out NCRS tomorrow, i'd be embarassed, haven't seen one operational since trade course. I'd need a weekend just to get back upto speed, but then thats re-learning, not practicing. And then the training program wouldn't have another similar activity for 2 years? (given that i haven't seen NCRS being used in the last two years thats not such a bad guesstimate). Every exercise we go on, i feel like i'm always starting from scratch.

johnjohn said:
its very much in your hands i believe
Well, not quite, and is related to my points above. If i want to go play COMMCEN's for a bit of practice (Task 2?), i can't exactly go to the Comms store and pick up all the different means we need to be proficient in. These training events are designated by people with more influence than I, and the training program does not appear to be oriented towards workbook activities. This is really the essence of the problem.

TB
 
#9
TopBadger said:
If i want to go play COMMCEN's for a bit of practice (Task 2?), i can't
Soz for the edit..... Well in my 7 years with the Sigs, I've worked in a COMMCEN once and guess what, I was supervising it :!:
 
#10
[quote="polar
........ plus a weekend of NCRS. Regt delivers the NCRS training [/quote]

What - along with SLIDEX, semaphore and the aldis lamp ??
 
#11
34 sigs until recently ran trade courses up to class 2, I think its being centralised now in 11 brigade. I have my class 2.
36 sigs used to run trade courses up to class 2 alos but I left there in 2001
 
#12
Trossachs said:
What - along with SLIDEX, semaphore and the aldis lamp ??
Not forgeting VP, Clansman and JMH. I was recently on a 2 week ex with a live customer in a COMMCEN, on the 2nd weekend nearly all my trained operators were replaced by NFQ's the lack of VP/JMH skills caused zero problems. The only problem I had, was operators that were crap at Windows (mainly MS Outlook) (this was all rank ranges, some Sgts being particularly crap and some NFQ's being excellent).

And we can bin techs aswell, they have no function with modern CIS (other than employing them as operators)
 
#13
I understood that 35 sigs were again nexyt year running a nine day course for people moving up to class 2? I also understand this will be happening at 33 sigs?

But the understanding is that you will attend with your workbook fully (or substantially) signed off. The 2 week course is then revision and assessment

(Edited because I put the wrong outfit up above, numbnuts that I am)
 
#14
TB

I Completed my Trade Camp at Donnington in November Last Year, my regiment go through the work book & on every exercise when we have a class one out with the dets they try to test us on the work book, to that end all i have to do to complete my workbook is one section which doesnt take long & it is being done on tuesday night.

As Polar says 2 sqadrons have merged under FAS we have 3 class ones at my location with regards to operators. so we do get chance to get ours in, TB wha unit are you with & when did you do your trade camp

watto
 
#17
Polar69

I did my class 3 training at 35 sigs. The workbook was not even mentioned on the course. It was only after chatting to people who did their trade training at 33 sigs that I even found about them.

Don't know whether your YoS dislikes them maybe. But having said that your YoS seemed fairly switched on so maybe it is a squadron thing.

(Again edited bcasue I originally put up 34 sigs for some reason)
 
#18
What does the class 2 give to the soldier, it doesn't stop them from promotion (although it does in 34), doesn't give them extra pay anymore (although in some units soldiers remain at low pay band until class 2). Its only needed if you want to attend class 1
 
#19
polar said:
What does the class 2 give to the soldier, it doesn't stop them from promotion (although it does in 34), doesn't give them extra pay anymore (although in some units soldiers remain at low pay band until class 2). Its only needed if you want to attend class 1
Its supposed to be proof of all the experience we aren't getting so we can demonstrate how super we're going to be at class 1.

Promotion guidelines for R Sigs mentions that it is preferable (therefore not a strict requirement) for pers to be class 2 before promotion to Cpl. I agree with the guidelines myself, but i'm glad their not enforced, otherwise we'd have no full screws.

The whole trade mess needs sorting out. When i were on class 3, there were existing class 3's there going to class 2. As far as i'm aware there are no more 9 day courses to move from class 3-2. Or my Regt doesn't publish them as such anyway. Only way to get class 2 is to:

1 - complete workbook, something i might do by 2020 at current rate of progress. Hey, we might have Bowman and Wolfs to put them in by then.
2 - sit some sort of exam. Which is something Regt are quiet about, i've never heard of such an exam taking place myself, but then i don't know anyone ready to take it.
3 - Attend Bde CPX

But to go back to what Polar said (at the top), i couldn't agree more. Whats the point of class 2? When you get there you have to wait 18 months before you can go on a class 1 course, and the skill fade in that period will essentially mean i go on class 1 at about the same aptitude i have now.

Why can't they just let you attempt class 1? If you pass, great, if not then tough, go back, re-learn and try again next year.

TB
 
#20
You've missed the point TB &POlar about what Class 2 is for. Class 2 is about being able to operate unsupervised, Class 1 is about being able to supervise others. At Class 1 you are at a differnet level of management and supervisory ability but not necessarily with MORE knowledge - just better practiced in the knowledge you already have.

There are no 9 day courses for Class 2 (in 2 Sig Bde anyway) becuae it isn't generally about acquiring lots of new knowledge, it's about coonsolidating the knowledge you already have. When there were trade course for Class 2 everyone moaned about not having the time to do anything except trade courses - that's why workboooks were introduced as it all supposed to be continuation training anyway - inevitably 5 years down the line everyone has forgotten this and now wants to go back to the way it was. Such is life.

You cannot go straight to Class 1 because if you can't already operate unsupervised you cannot possibly supervise others. I don't see why the Class 2 workbook is proving so hard to get finished - it's simply a matter of Units getting organised to make sure that those who need the experience get in on weekends - why is that so hard? (Serious question not trying to be critical)
 

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