TA Pre-Deployment training pay

Discussion in 'Army Pay, Claims & JPA' started by copper_knobblet, Oct 27, 2007.

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  1. Hoping someone can help me here.

    I'm due to be mobilised for Herrick some months in the future but before then I am likely to need to do some training here and there. This means I will need to take unpaid leave from my employer. I have been doing some swotting up today.

    From what I can gather I cannot have my army pay made up to my civi pay until I receive a call-out notice as per RFA 1996 and obviously I won't have one for my training. Trouble is my TA pay is a bit less than my civi pay - is there anyway I can make it equal or am I just going to have to struggle? I'm looking at probably a few weeks of TA training before going and its going to be quite a hit.

    I think my pension is sorted as I'm in the local government pension which says that if I take reserve forces leave of absence and my TA pay is less than my civi pay my contributions are deemed paid which helps cut the gap a bit but considering my TA pay is taxed at BR and my national insurance comes out at 11% on my entire gross pay it seems like I'm going to have some cash-flow problems because I'll have to claim tax and NICs back.

    Am I just going to have to soldier on or is there some help for me out there? We're not talking obscene amounts of money (if I got 13% X-Factor my army pay would be more) but I don't have much disposable income as it is. Seems a bit of a gap in the help available.

    The first thing my employer said when I told them about my probable mobilisation was "we're not going to have to pay you are we" so any help from them financially is unlikely. I've also used up my 2 week extra paid leave this year for a trade course back earlier in the year.

    I'm wondering if maybe my employer (a council) might let me take my 2 weeks for next year this year (as I ain't going to be doing camp next year if I go!). Anyone else asked for this perchance? I figure if I can come up with an example of somebody else getting that then it might help my argument.
  2. Why not ask if your unit can mobilise you sooner, so that you can get the "extra" training you say you need in? There is a degree of flexibility in the system. Ask your Adjt, UAO or PSAO.

    Is your unit pressuring you to do this training? If it's so important, why isn't it covered in OPTAG?
  3. Well I may need to do a class 1 course and placements.

    Perhaps it is an option to be mobilised early for the placement(s) (I shall ask, I've not known long I'm going so literally no chance to ask this stuff of unit yet) but I'm stuck at home today and trying to do a bit of financial planning so thought I'd try the worse case scenarios.

    I don't believe I must do a class 1 course to go (I've been told I might not be able to do it anyway but can still go as a class 2) but if I can get on it I want to do it simply because I want to do the best I can. I'll manage somehow with the money cut but it would be nice if there was some help. So no they are not pressuring me to do that. Some of the MATT training is being held during week-time so I possibly may need leave for that.

    The placements I believe are a must. I don't know if it can be organised so its in one lump before I go (meaning I will ask to be mobilised early if I can) or if its going to be a week here, a week there.

    I suppose I'm jumping the gun a bit asking now since like I said I've not known long (few days) and I'm a late invite to the party so I'm well behind the curve and not had a chance to ask these questions of my unit yet.

    Thanks for the reply tho, hadn't occured to me to ask for early call-out - sort of help I was hoping to get here. Cheers.
  4. Seriously mate, I wouldn't jump through every hoop they present to you, until they call you up. They will take the pi$$ just as much as they can, while you are compliant, ya know? I'm not trying to be a barrack room lawyer, but they have to understand that any commitment outside of call-up is voluntary -- you have financial, home and work commitments.

    Once they have you mobilised..... it's a different story!

    Best of luck by the way :)
  5. I would agree with Dave The Ape above.

    As a normal part time member of the TA you are regarded by the MOD as a casual employee and are in practice only committed to doing your normal annual training.

    If you are being mobilised under the curent arrangements you have presumably given at least your tacit approval to such mobilisation.

    It is unreasonable for the Army to expect you to do a whole load of extra training prior to mobilisation in your own time and at some financial loss to you.

    Most tours are around the 9 or 10 months now - maybe a bit longer - this is to allow time for neccessary training and post tour leave . Thats a big enough burden to bear for the average person in the TA who also has a real day job.

    If they want you to mobilise they should take you more or less as you are and fit in any required training after mobilisation - when you are on full army pay plus any appropriate compensation for loss of civilian earnings.

    The Army are getting a good enough deal from you agreeing to be mobilised they shouldn't expect you to suffer financialy for it.
  6. Can I just ask how long you have been in and if the job you are going to do is infantry
  7. copper_knoblet, I work for a local authority and was mobilised for an operational tour fairly recently so I hope the following is useful:-
    As soon as you are mobilised the army take over your employer's pension contributions so there is no break in service for pension purposes. If I understand correctly however you are considering taking special/community service leave to attend a course and are concerned that this may affect your pension & NI situation before mobilisation. Firstly, I would study your employer's rules relating to this carefully. In my case there is the option either 1. to take unpaid leave and accept your TA pay, or 2. to take your civilian wage as normal but to compensate your employer by passing on your earnings from the period of special leave to them. If your civvy wage is more than your TA pay then clearly option 2 is better. You should also consider that you should only be obliged to pass on your TA pay from the days you were actually on special leave, for most people this may only be 10 days out of a 2 week camp, so your pension & NI contributions will continue as normal and you will also get 4 or 5 MTDs from the army.
    Secondly, and more importantly, I would question what the point of all this hassle is. The fact that you are willing to go on operations is to be respected but if the army decide to mobilise you, the onus is on them to train you appropriately. Not referring to general soldiering, fitness etc here but any specialist qualifications which may be required. You should make sure your fitness etc is up to passing MATTs before you are mobilised but there is no need to do the actual tests as Chilwell will put you through them all. Other than that, if it is important enough to the army for you to have course X they should put you through it after mobilisation. You will get dicked about enough during mobilisation, so don't waste limited family and social life beforehand and possibly leave yourself out of pocket doing so.
    all the best anyway
  8. Hi thanks for that. I've PM'd you.

    If I can do the course I'm doing it. I know full well the army can and probably will **** me about (I was told I definately wasn't going no matter what a few weeks ago so I know how things change (on the bus off the bus etc!)) but I will still do the very best I can and that means doing the course.

    Things might be a bit tight tho!
  9. msr

    msr LE

    Just as long as you don't upset your employer so much that you have no job to come back to...

  10. OldSnowy

    OldSnowy LE Moderator Book Reviewer

    First things first - there is ALWAYS the chance that your Mobilisation will not happen - there are 1,0001 things that can change - for all we know, we could be out of Basra by Christmas, for example. Or, the Army could decide that your Trade Group is no longer needed for that particular Op. This is one of the reasons why the Army don't like giving you too much notice (30 days is average, much higher for Health Care professionals) - because, if things change, and they don't want you, both you and your employer will be mighty peeved, and probably out of pocket. Even once you get the call-out papers, you could still fail at the Medical and other Mob tests.

    So, in short, don't anticipate the movement! No-one, and I mean no-one, can or will guarantee that you will be mobilised. If they want you, they will call you out - and then you get the COG - Call-Out Gratuity - right away, to cover odd expenses like you are suggesting now, anyway. Once signed up, you are OK, but until then, NOTHING is certain, so plan, but always have a fall-back position.
  11. A week ago I definately was not going, no matter what.

    So I know things change and change without warning. And it might not be my unit that changes them.

    But right now I'm just trying to square myself away initially so I can kick back and forget about it until (IF) I get a call out notice. In my few short years in the TA I've learnt it ain't happened until its happened and gone by. Thanks for advice!