TA Paras wearing wings while at depot

#1
Is it the case that TA guys with wings who then decide to join the Regulars and go the whole hog through depot are allowed to wear their wings if they have already earn't them in the TA.

As anyone heard of any winged up TA guys then failing regular P-company.

Somebody told me they were made to wear their wings.
 
#2
we had a bloke a few years ago at 23 Para Fd Amb who had his wings through the TA, but because he wouldnt do regular P Coy he wasnt allowed to jump and didnt get the pay but was allowed to wear the wings.
That was in 1985 and things may have changed.
 
#3
sorry dont know the answer to that one but if a bod is already winged up then decides to go regs im assuming you mean leaves the ta and goes to a careers office ? then i would expect that you would have to earn your wings as well as the next man but i cant see the point in your question if your already winged up in the ta then why go the difficult route by leaving then joining the regs why not just ftrs then stay in at the end of your ftrs period of service therefore saving yourself the complete waste of time having to do p coy etc again basically youd be doing yourself no favours by going the "correct " route the army doesnt seem to have a grasp on the fact that they expect ta to be there equivalent when it comes to mobilisation etc but when you want to become a regular....... well speaks for itself !
 

cpunk

LE
Moderator
#4
All the guys at Sandhurst with me who had got their wings through the TA were told to wear them, and did so, though I think they all had to do regular P-Company if they went to an Airborne unit. On the other hand, I know of a couple of Int Corps NCOs with TA para wings - one from 4 Para, one from 23 SAS - who got posted in to the old 5 AB Bde and were just sent on a refresher course at Brize.
 
#5
Same with their APJI wings, Assault Pioneer badges, and any other qualifications they earned. With increasing movement between the TA and the Regs many of the artificial barriers have dissapeared.

Regular P Coy differs in that it includes a 20 Miler. It used to be that regular P coy was two weeks whilst the TA one was fitted into a weekend with the exception of the 10 Miler, now it is fitted into a week after CIC.

People regularly fail a second P Coy, mainly due to injury. It is not the sort of course where you can carry an injury.
 
#6
wayne1972 said:
sorry dont know the answer to that one but if a bod is already winged up then decides to go regs im assuming you mean leaves the ta and goes to a careers office ? then i would expect that you would have to earn your wings as well as the next man but i cant see the point in your question if your already winged up in the ta then why go the difficult route by leaving then joining the regs why not just ftrs then stay in at the end of your ftrs period of service therefore saving yourself the complete waste of time having to do p coy etc again basically youd be doing yourself no favours by going the "correct " route the army doesnt seem to have a grasp on the fact that they expect ta to be there equivalent when it comes to mobilisation etc but when you want to become a regular....... well speaks for itself !
Jesus christ wayne! You ever pause for breath? Punctuation man, punctuation.;-)
 
#7
wayne1972 said:
sorry dont know the answer to that one but if a bod is already winged up then decides to go regs im assuming you mean leaves the ta and goes to a careers office ? then i would expect that you would have to earn your wings as well as the next man but i cant see the point in your question if your already winged up in the ta then why go the difficult route by leaving then joining the regs why not just ftrs then stay in at the end of your ftrs period of service therefore saving yourself the complete waste of time having to do p coy etc again basically youd be doing yourself no favours by going the "correct " route the army doesnt seem to have a grasp on the fact that they expect ta to be there equivalent when it comes to mobilisation etc but when you want to become a regular....... well speaks for itself !

Would this same 'winged-up' bloke not be eligible to be mobilised with the regs and serve alongside them. Either you are a trained soldier/sailor/airman/marine(cross-dresser) or you're not. If at Sandhurst, you were a TA OR, or reg before and gained your wings what difference does it make.

We've got a huge problem with this esp in our officer corp. Basically the guys at the AIB (RN PCB) still haven't got to grips with the fact that would could have a 30 something joining up with OJARS from theatres/home units etc and those play second fiddle to "were you a prefect at school". Whilst the people at the top want to change this, it will take a long time to filter down into those implementing these procedures.
 
#8
GoodIdeaAtTheTime said:
Regular P Coy differs in that it includes a 20 Miler. It used to be that regular P coy was two weeks whilst the TA one was fitted into a weekend with the exception of the 10 Miler, now it is fitted into a week after CIC.
Yeah and the timings on other events are different as well
 
#9
^Really? I thought the timings were meant to be the same nowadays? One Army Concept and everything.

I've heard 21 SAS have now adopted the same times as 22 for test week (you used to get an extra 4 hours for long drag).

Anyone know if there are any discrepancies between the Commando cse and part time equivalent?
 
#10
When I went through Depot Para in 83-84 there were plenty of blokes who had been in the various Para TA units, the ones I knew were not allowed to wear their wings but it depended on the Plt staff. The feeling was that we were all in the same boat and even if they had done TA P-Coy they should not be allowed to stand out. One lad had done P-Coy (and passed) with 4 and 10 Para and then Regular.

Some blokes could get away with it other couldn't, one lad even got to wear his USMC wings 8O
 
#13
As with any army badge: if you have ernt it / wear it.

Once you have enrt your wings, no one can tell you to take them off.

Its down to the individual as to weather he wears them apon joining the Regs and doing his P Coy.

I would personnally take them off for P Coy and then put them back up afterwards.
 
#14
I see no purpose whatsoever forcing ex TA Paras to do P Coy. If they are already winged up, then it means they have no need to do Brize afterwards!

Either we are one army or we are not............

Dress Regs are clear on the subject, Once you earn them, you keep them....

May have to do a refresher course to qualify for jump pay, but if a direct transfer from TA - Why even that?
 

chimera

LE
Moderator
#15
Some pragmatism needed here. A TA bod has been out of the same door of the C130 as the Regular, but although I am not sure of the current regulations, No 1 PTS at Brize used to make them do a TA-Regular parachute 'conversion' course (however many TA jumps they had done) so that bit is covered. If he has served with a airborne/SF unit then that bit is covered too - whether it was TA or not. BUT any officer or soldier serving in a regular airborne unit worth his salt that gained his wings in the TA will form up pretty sharpish for Regular P Coy. If nothing else it's personal pride thing, and saves grief in the bar.
 
#16
For reference...

There are good reasons the TA P-Coy is different from Regular P-Coy.

Anyone that has passed or attempted TA P-Coy knows that you have to do all the same training i.e. 20 milers, 10 milers in 1hr 50 etc. in your own time or your not going to pass.

Ultimately both are seen to be the Pre-jumps qual course and if your pass jumps (same course) then surely you can wear your BBC with pride?

Correct me if I'm wrong? :?
 
#17
wayne1972 said:
sorry dont know the answer to that one but if a bod is already winged up then decides to go regs im assuming you mean leaves the ta and goes to a careers office ? then i would expect that you would have to earn your wings as well as the next man but i cant see the point in your question if your already winged up in the ta then why go the difficult route by leaving then joining the regs why not just ftrs then stay in at the end of your ftrs period of service therefore saving yourself the complete waste of time having to do p coy etc again basically youd be doing yourself no favours by going the "correct " route the army doesnt seem to have a grasp on the fact that they expect ta to be there equivalent when it comes to mobilisation etc but when you want to become a regular....... well speaks for itself !
Behave yer nugget....
 
#18
God, no wonder there are problems with recruiting/ retention! When did "P-Company" attain this semi-mystical status as some sort of Holy Grail ?! Same could be said re SAS (sorry - "Them"; what is it BTW with all this "They who cannot be named" crap? Like something out of Harry Potter!) selection: they're only basic selection courses FFS, albeit unusually demanding ones!

I know lots of "old sweats" who went para in WW2/ 1950s, and they find this "airborne cultism" very bemusing and more than a little unhealthy. Plenty of people - army & civvy - could pis* on these courses but have better things to do with their time. Don't get me wrong, am not denigrating either unit (outstanding in every way - a huge asset to Army and nation), but I do think that some people need to broaden their perspectives and get out of their own arrses.

My brother (retired, highly experienced infantry NCO - did it ALL in his time) reckons that the best all round training he ever underwent was in the recce platoon of a line infantry battalion, and that the biggest hazard in the infantry/ special forces worlds was, more often than not, the "complacent para" (not too common, but frequent enough to be a bit of a problem on more than one occasion) who reckoned that his "wings" conferred a status not unlike that of the Papacy.

Finally, I'll hazard the suggestion that managing to prepare for and pass such tough courses whilst also holding down a job (or even, heaven forbid, studying - and students face more than a few readily available distractions!) more than compensates for any perceived "reduced standard" in the TA versions. Am not suggesting that TAs attain the same level of overall capability as the Regs - of course not - but that should be addressed by rigorous follow-on training on mobilisation rather than by forcing highly motivated (and certainly in the case of TA SAS, multi-skilled individuals who often have very useful insights/ experience/ arcane capabilities rare in the Regular Army) people to jump through basic selection hoops prior to proceeding to operationally relevant training. After all, the SAS Regt was founded by imaginative "amateurs" who thought "outside the loop"!
 
#19
Straying from the thread: In the good old days of the Cambridge Military Hospital, come Airborne Forces weekend I would normally find myself on call and very busy in theatres as drunken paras thought that their tattooed wings would cause the cars that they walked out in front of to simply bounce off them, imagine their suprise when they didnt!!

Back on thread: I know of a TA unit (wink wink) bloke who deployed on Op Granby but was placed in a regular units (wink wink) stores once in Saudi because he was TA and hadnt completed the full selection, he was a very bitter man afterwards.
 

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