TA Officer to Regulars

#1
Hey,
Im currently in the OTC at the moment and I have a question. If I did my TA commission and reminded in the TA as an officer and then later decided to go regulars, would I need to do the regular commissioning course?

I have asked a few people and i'm getting mixed answers.Iv also searched on the internet and can't find anything.

Mr_d
 
#2
You should plan on yes. Over the years a very few (less than 10) officers have managed to convert to Intermediate Regular Commissions with a possibility of converting to Regular in due course. They are the exception to the rule and there are all sorts of career mangement pitfalls on this route.

The best advice is, if you are going to convert, convert early, as it doesn't get any easier the older you get.
 
M

Mr_Logic

Guest
#3
I think you'll find that the policy answer is that you will have to do the full RMAS Commissioning Course. Having said that, there are occasional examples of TA officers who go Regular without having done so. It very much depends on individual cases, the supporting evidence and how hard the receiving Regiment or Corps is prepared to fight to justify it. If you have proven quality as a leader and the unit is short of officers at your level, then your chances are better. Have you done an operational tour yet? As you are still serving in the OTC I would suggest that your request to be on weak grounds. However, if Daddy is a general and you are genuinely brilliant, then all bets are off.

Anecdotally, there were a number of young TA officers who served on OP TELIC 1 and performed very competently on operations. They subsequently applied to join as a Regular but were still required to do the full Sandhurst course. The point with the Commissioning Course, JOTAC, JOLP and ICSC(L) is that they set a common standard, across the Army, across all cap-badges. And before anyone bleats about 'one-Army' and all of the normal cries that his question raises, consider who is better trained, one who has done two weeks at RMAS or one who has done 42?
 
#4
Mr_Logic said:
I think you'll find that the policy answer is that you will have to do the full RMAS Commissioning Course. Having said that, there are occasional examples of TA officers who go Regular without having done so. It very much depends on individual cases, the supporting evidence and how hard the receiving Regiment or Corps is prepared to fight to justify it. If you have proven quality as a leader and the unit is short of officers at your level, then your chances are better. Have you done an operational tour yet? As you are still serving in the OTC I would suggest that your request to be on weak grounds. However, if Daddy is a general and you are genuinely brilliant, then all bets are off.

Anecdotally, there were a number of young TA officers who served on OP TELIC 1 and performed very competently on operations. They subsequently applied to join as a Regular but were still required to do the full Sandhurst course. The point with the Commissioning Course, JOTAC, JOLP and ICSC(L) is that they set a common standard, across the Army, across all cap-badges. And before anyone bleats about 'one-Army' and all of the normal cries that his question raises, consider who is better trained, one who has done two weeks at RMAS or one who has done 42?


Yes, agreed. I know 2 x guys who have converted, they went across as captains and in any case too old to do CCC.

Don't forget that a young regular infantry SNCO with junior and senior brecon under his belt, a fist full of campaign medals and possibly a gallantry medal will also have to do the CCC if he wants a commission and is in his mid-20s.
 
#6
Hmmm... you could looked have a little harder. The question has been asked a couple of times. No matter - the most relevant threads, and good advice, are here:

http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=12024/highlight=transfer++officer+regular.html

http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=32122/highlight=transfer++officer+regular.html

Basically Mr Logic has it dead on. It is possible to transfer directly but it is rare and highly dependent upon your individual circumstances and the requirements of the regiment you wish to join. If you bring loads to the party in terms of excellent personal skills & experience, sound & relevant TA experience and have worked alongside your intended regiment then you have a sound case.

However, in your case you'd better look forward to three terms of joy - unlucky!

Best of luck

Charlie

Edited due to mongery
 
#7
Fred_Cat said:
You should plan on yes. Over the years a very few (less than 10) officers have managed to convert to Intermediate Regular Commissions with a possibility of converting to Regular in due course. They are the exception to the rule and there are all sorts of career mangement pitfalls on this route.

The best advice is, if you are going to convert, convert early, as it doesn't get any easier the older you get.
You really don't have a clue what you are talking about do you?
 
#9
Probably more than you, I suspect matey. If you sitting on some great source of knowledge then enlighten us. No one should count on being able to convert from TA to regular as a subaltern without doing the CCC.
 
#10
From all the replies im getting, it would make sense.I was hopefully to do a few years in the TA with the signals and then if all goes well then go regulars but im on the verge of just going regulars and doing the regular CC.Thanks for all the replies.
 
#11
I only know of one TA subaltern who converted to a regular commission and that was from TA Gunners to RAF Regiment, following an SSVC. He was a FAC and hence in demand.

TA subbie to Regular subbie without RMAS is IMHO an unsuitable course to plot. You would miss out on the things which make regular subalterns turn out alright in the end! TA captain/field officer however into Regular is a different kettle of fish and I know of one who has not only achieved this but has been picked up for promotion. Ironically I don't think he would have got the nod in the TA, despite being "good enough". The competition is fierce for relatively fewer posts in the TA at O5 level.
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#13
Mr_d said:
From all the replies im getting, it would make sense.I was hopefully to do a few years in the TA with the signals and then if all goes well then go regulars but im on the verge of just going regulars and doing the regular CC.Thanks for all the replies.
I would if I were you. Why waste time with the TACC route and run the very real chance of having to do the regular CC later?
 
#14
The_Duke said:
Mr_d said:
From all the replies im getting, it would make sense.I was hopefully to do a few years in the TA with the signals and then if all goes well then go regulars but im on the verge of just going regulars and doing the regular CC.Thanks for all the replies.
I would if I were you. Why waste time with the TACC route and run the very real chance of having to do the regular CC later?
There were quite a few people on the TACC with me that had no intention of remaining civvies once they'd left university, and were planning to go back to Sandhurst to do the regular course. They were commissioning with the TA or OTC in order to gain experience or to see if life as an officer was really for them.

Going down the TA commissioning route also gives you outside perspectives on the way the orders and estimate process works. We were told that the TA generally did as well and sometimes better than the regular OCdts at practac, and this was attributed to the teaching methods of the RTCs. It's better to show up to the commissioning course knowing how the system works, and then perfect your skills while you're there.

In addition, commissioning with the TA gives you an idea of what leading actual soldiers entails rather than other OCdts, so when you commission into the regular army it isn't quite as daunting.
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#15
T_G_M,

My point was not that the TACC was not worthwhile, but more that if his aspiration is to be a regular officer he should anticipate doing the regular CC.

If he choses to do TACC in the meantime to gain experience etc then fine, but doing it with the hope of transfering to a regular commission bypassing the regular CC is flawed.

He could consider chosing the route of enjoying his time at the OTC, avoiding the YO paperwork and admin trap, and have confidence that 44 weeks at RMAS will prepare him to be a YO, as it has done for so many others.
 
#16
I know of a TA Lt who did an attachment with the regs and stayed on. He is now a Major and has done all the things a regular young officer does - Coy Commander, job at the MoD, MBE.

Basically, as with other ranks, if you do an attachment and are good at your job you will be asked to consider staying on - they are that strapped for personel.
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#17
The_Daddy,

One person does not make it a proven route for all. If you are young enough to go back to RMAS, the general guideline is that you will go back there. If you are too old for RMAS, you MAY be taken on, depending on the circumstances.

I served several years on S Type/FTRS and was recommended for conversion to SSC by 2 COs and Bde comd. Result? Rejected by MCM Div as age/rank profile did not match.

A fellow Capt on FTRS to another Inf unit was granted a conversion but only if he transferred to a Corps, as he would not be taken on to an Inf SSC, despite very strong support from his CO.

Please stop peddling the idea that TACC plus attachment = conversion to SSC. It is in no way guaranteed.

But what the hell, some of us have been in that position, gone through all of the procedures, done all of the paperwork to no avail, but if a mate of a mate in the pub knows someone who did it, it must be true.
 
#18
The Duke,

just saying that I do know of one. We all know that manning & records don't know sh1t but its good to know that some are successful.
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#19
The-Daddy said:
Basically, as with other ranks, if you do an attachment and are good at your job you will be asked to consider staying on - they are that strapped for personel.
No, you were just saying that as long as you turned up and were good at your job then you WILL be asked to stay.

As I said earlier - absolute rubbish. When someone is asking a genuine question which may have an impact on their career, how about sticking to commenting on things you actually know about? If not, caveat your comments along the lines of "I have not been in the TA for years, and do not know this for a fact, but I think it might be the case that...."
 
#20
In my experience, albeit a distant one (not even a decade yet - my Brecon point has only just started to wane), those who get attached to the regs and do a decent job do get asked to consider staying on. I am also still in contact with serving TA members who have recently been attached to regular battalions and they inform me that this is still the case. Maybe I only know stars who outperform all those around them - maybe it rubbed of from being in my presence :p - maybe its because the regs are crying out for bods. Whatever the reason it does happen, even if only a few take them up on the offer.

As for my comments having an impact on someones career - get a grip. This post asked a question and members answered. If you don'y agree with the answer then so be it. My advise to the gentleman is if you don't try you will never know - that is if that is going to be his wish in a year or two. If you get knocked back then try another avenue. The answers on this forum are not the be all and end all of military life.