TA Officer Cadets

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by TA_sig, Jul 8, 2004.

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  1. Anyone here recently made it to 2LT or still got their white stripes on?

    How do you find doing MTQ2 with the UOTC? Reading some of the material on the OTC board is amusing at best. Once completed phase's 1 to 3 and getting some tactical experience I would have thought TA cadets and OTC to be an interesting mixture?

    I'm currently way back at the beginning awaiting a phase 2 date(SPSI wouldn't give me a temp number either)-better be soon or I'll never get it done-going to be busy soon and won't be able to afford two weeks off from the 'ol office.
  2. I've still got my white stripe on but I'm on the first ever TAPO course as phase two training. It's shit, in all honesty.
  3. msr

    msr LE

    Nothing like a coherent, well-reasoned argument to really stimulate some useful discussion...

    I wouldn't even expect Kevin the teenager to provide such a response.

  4. Okely doke. My criticisms thus far:

    1. There is a clear gap between those course members who are TA trained with their units, and those who have undergone the Direct Entry Potential Officer course. The DEPO lot are undisciplined, sloppy, clique-ish and enormously immature (17, 18, 19 year olds for the most part).

    2. Combining the DEPO lot with the TA soldiers isn't working; largely as the DEPO guys are already such a tight unit, having gone through the two-week phase one course together, and have never been in a soldier-type environment where the emphasis is on making a team and mucking in. The five/six year average age gap between the two groups is also causing problems with integration, and the resultant tension is making the course unenjoyable, in all honesty.

    3. The staff on the course are willing to let the officer cadets get away with murder in order to keep up attendance, e.g. Every single person on the course was awarded an APWT pass, even though this was blatently not the case and some people weren't hitting a thing at 300m.

    4. The idea of breaking the training down into 11 modular weekends is good in principle, but the DEPO scheme is the root of the problem. This could be easily solved by making everyone do their Phase 1 training with their TA units, and by ensuring that everyone has passed the TCB before starting the course. This would improve the quality of course attendee, as frankly some of them haven't a prayer of making the course as it is - not a personal criticism, they're just too young - particularly to command TA troops.

    I'm fully aware that this is the first of such courses, and there are inevitably going to be teething troubles. The problems I've noticed are two-fold, then: firstly, the criteria for personnel allowed to attend the course needs to be tightened up (scrap DEPO, require TCB pass); and secondly, the training staff need to be stricter.
  5. I'd disagree with that.

    The training staff are expecting well educated and generally well thinking men and women (picked through interviews and selection) to behave like the Officers they attain to be.

    We are given the lee way to do this and not treated like a general rank and file soldier would be. When something goes wrong WE DO know about it. Just like they'd tell us at Sandhurst where they expect you to get on with it with your own crack and pay the price if you don't.

    Leaders aren't people who simply do everythign they're told.

    As for the clique comment, yes a lot of DEPO know each other but the people coming in from TA units have been welcomed with open arms with the DEPO drawing on their experiance and welcoming their inclusion.

    I haven't seen this clique you're talking about even when we split into natural groups (because of seating) there was a healthy mix between both forms of entry.

    So it's a dissapointing impression which I hope hasn't come from the NW programme.
  6. True, but whether officer or other ranks, you're still soldiers, and some of the DEPO guys come across as sloppy with no sense of urgency. I've heard a lot of guff on this course about "leaders" etc, but I don't see why we shouldn't have to have the same sense of military professionalism that [no even about it - Mod] TA soldiers have.

    There is also the huge issue of maturity, which is why so many DEPO guys have been coming back with 2/12s and 2/24's from TA Briefing. I don't see the point in people doing the PO course now and then having to wait two years before they can even do their Main Board, let alone go to Sandhurst.

    I'll moderate my comments about the mix, given that it's only 4 or 5 individuals who consistently act like prats. I would add, though, that I know I'm not the only TA-trained officer cadet on the course who has noticed the vast difference between the TA guys and the DEPO people. Perhaps the DEPOs don't even know they're doing it.

    I have to say I've been overwhelmingly disappointed with the course so far. The camaraderie and teamwork that makes TA weekends with my unit so enjoyable is completely missing on this course, and I do find the lack of discipline isn't engendering the right atmosphere for a military course - officers or not. On a personal level, I'm finding it very hard to keep up my enthusiasm.
  7. msr

    msr LE

    Sorry, but what does this mean:

    which is why so many DEPO guys have been coming back with 2/12s and 2/24's from TA Briefing

  8. The new DEPO scheme allows potential TA officers to start officer training before they do TA briefing/TCB. As Arfur points out, many of the direct entry candidates are very young, and so it appears that many of them are getting deferred passes to prevent them going straight forward to TCB - the /12 /24 bit of the grade refers to how many months they must wait before progressing.

    From memory, I think a 1 pass is straight to TCB, 2 is pass but wait, 3 is fail but retry, and 4 is outright fail, but I could be wrong.

    I suspect that the reason DEPO's are getting deferred passes is partly to do with their age, and also partly to do with the fact that they are assessed together with candidates who have been in the TA for some time and are familiar with command tasks, teamwork etc. It is however very early days for the scheme, so maybe it is just a case of wait and see...
  9. 1 = Pass, go on
    2 = Delay, allowed to go onto main board after 6, 12 or 24 months
    3 = Fail but allowed to come back to briefing
    4 = Fail (generally a fail on the IQ test)

    I don't know about the new system, I was on the last sausae factory course of the old system, but hopefully the new system will equip POs better.

  10. What would you contrue to be the fundamental differences between the old system and the new one?

    Also anyone had any experience of the Scottish T.A.O.C programme ?
  11. Basically, the new system bins the OTC MTQ-2 (although I think OTC Cadets will still do it) and has replaced it with a 10 weekend long (over the course of a year) battle course.

    It should produce better prepared TA OCdts for the sausage factory.

  12. sounds like a plan! MTQ 2 along is hardly prep for the course. However I hear that Queens UOTC offer a good beat up course... anyone been on it or similar ?
  13. why yes Mr Cheeeky I had the pleasure this June, really good course,lots of time in the field and plenty of command appointments as well as really good instruction all in allit gets a 5* for Jash
    Tally what what!
  14. I would disagree - aspirant soldiers, maybe, but there is no doubt that may students view OTC as a drinking club.

    Until the OTC get mobilised en masse as the TA have been, this will remain the case.
  15. This was the case many years ago when I was on the direct entry course in Scotland in 1988. The course, although supposedly for 'Direct Entrants' for a commission, was made up roughly about 30% TA, 30%OTC and 40% civvies. The difference between the TA and the others was huge. As I remember it, almost all of the civvies binned it early, leaving only the decent civvies and the OTC prats who couldn't tell one end of a rifle from another.

    I'm generalising a little - there were about half a dozen decent OTC guys....... the rest were plonkers!!