TA infantry for London

#1
What is the score with the London regiment at the moment (and future if any)?

Is there anyone with an insight into what may be happening i.e. are the jackets staying with the other redcoat companies or are they all going back to their parent regiments.
 
#2
I don't know whether anything official has been announced, but rumour control and wikipedia says Following the restructuring of the British Army in 2004, it was announced that the Brigade of Guards would gain a TA battalion. "While there is no confirmation as yet, it is logical to assume that the London Regiment would be the choice for this. It is likely that the two Royal Green Jackets companies would transfer to the new TA battalion of that regiment, leaving the remaining four plus the HQ Company to become Guards. It is not clear however whether this would form a new Guards regiment, which would seem logical as the five regular Guards regiments are not amalgamating, or simply the 6th Battalion, Foot Guards."

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Regiment"
 
#3
Ok Thanks for that.

Sounds like it could be interesting times ahead for both the green jacket and the redcoat companies.

I think one capbadge for the London regiment is a good idea as it stops all the s**t about what capbadge is better once and for all. If its a guards battalion (TA) what regiment would it be or would it be Irish Guards coy 6th Guards Bn, Scots Guards coy 6th Guards Bn etc.

speaking as someone who is in the Londons it wouldn't be too bad!
 
#4
There WILL be a London reg, but the Jackets may go from the Londons as a 4th Bat of the jackets is being created.

I also believe that their will be a cap badged london reg, no longer PWRR, Scots, Irish etc, one regiment=more pride... tis best in the end really.

MOD planned to cut the TA infantry to 2000 at one point (mad c*nts), but that is not goin to happen now.
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
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#5
Redcoat companies!? Shows an extreme ignorance on the part of the writer.

The London Scottish have never worn redcoats. We have worn Hodden Grey since being formed. The regiment was originally formed as 'Rifle Volunteers' but didn't bother with the american style green worn by the slap jackets. We adopted a proper Scottish colour.

I'm not at all sure but I doubt if the paddies have ever worn red either.

Other than that its a valid question, whats to happen to the Londons? My bet is that the Scottish and Irish will be left alone but that the Guards will take the lead as regualr regiment.

No idea on the fate of the other regiment's companies.

Redcoats indeed!
 
#6
I can see the Londons being closer affiliated with the Guards, but I doubt that they'll change capbadges, purely on the basis of the cost of fitting out the Regiment in red tunics and bearskins. You never know though.

If the Londons did rebadge to Guards, I don't think a new Regiment of foot guards would be formed -just that A Coy would rebadge SG, and D Coy to IG, which would be logical. B and C would have to fight it out, each or both going to the Grens or Coldstreamers. F and G Coys would go to their parent regiment. As I said, I can't see it happening under Bliar's "spend no money" policy.
 
#7
Well, I was in 2RGJ and 4RGJ and I think that it was daft when they got rid of 4RGJ with the SDR.

As I say I only know the rumours, but I am pretty sure you will be looking at a Greenjacket Battalion.

If it happens I hope someone organises a celebration, I'll come and get pissed with the boys.
 
#9
Might be way off beam here and totally wrong. But isn't HAC part of the Houshold Division?

I understood Household Div was the five regts of Foot Guards, the Household Cav Regt and the HAC.

Therefore, no TA Guards infantry required under the FAS but there would be a TA Regt in Household (or Guards) Div.

As I say I might be wrong.

James
 
#10
The HAC are a bit odd aren't they.

They are definitely not Household Div, although some of thier PSI's are.

They are, according to the MOD website, a RA Unit. The site says "HAC soldiers are also attached to other units to gain or provide expertise and supports exercises conducted by our Regular Army Sister unit, 4/73 Special OP Battery."

I assume that won't change.
 
#11
I think you might find that the Lodon Irish were actually a Rifle regiment (in which case makes them closer to Green Jackets) however they lost that status when the RUR joined the irish redcoats (1968ish). I think you will find that they are (or were part of the Royal Irish Rangers then) who are a redcoat regiment (even though they don't wear them. Funny still trying to be green jackets.... but not!!)

The London Scottish however as you rightly state wear hodden grey which is more like the old army blanket in colour except without the line down the centre (and if you can tell me the real reason why they wear that i might be impressed, and don't say its about poachers and dear hunting).

By the way i think you will find that the americans copied the green of the Rifle Brigade and KRRC!

What I should have said was Line Regiment coys.

Celler et Audax my friend (and another bonus point if you know what that is!)
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
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#12
Keeping_it_real said:
Celler et Audax my friend (and another bonus point if you know what that is!)
Swift and Bold?
 
#13
The London Irish Rifles used to be 4 Royal Irish Rangers, but when the Royal Irish Reg. came along all that went out the window, even though LIR privates are still actually called "Ranger."

The LIR were originally the London Irish Rifle Volunteers, and as such they keep some of the traditions of a Rifle Regiment.
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#14
Errrm, the HAC gets a lot of press.

To clarify, the HAC


In 1830, King William IV ordered the uniform of the HAC to be based on that of the Grenadier Guards. Thirty years later, control of the Company moved from the Home Office to the War Office and, in 1889, a Royal Warrant gave the Secretary of State for War full control of the Company’s military affairs. The Light Cavalry was formed in 1861 as a reconnaissance unit for the infantry, becoming a horse battery in 1891 and accounting for the Regiment’s link with the Royal Horse Artillery (RHA). In 1979, [it was] agreed to reconstitute the Light Cavalry for ceremonial tasks.

The Company has always had strong connections with the City [of London]. In the early part of the 17th Century, the Court of Aldermen appointed the chief officers and paid the professional soldiers who trained members of the Company. Even today, the Lord Mayor, Aldermen and Sheriffs are honorary members of the Court of Assistants.

Since the Restoration, the Company has provided Guards of Honour in the City for visits by members of the Royal Family, foreign Royalty and other Heads of State. The Regiment also has a unique ceremonial role in the City of London providing the Saluting Battery at the Tower of London and Guards of Honour for State Occasions..
and to quote the British Army site (last updated 1998...):
The Honourable Artillery Company was established under Royal Charter by Henry VIII in1537 and today the HAC provides Surveillance and Target Acquisition Patrols in support of the Allied Rapid Reaction Corps(ARRC). Each Sabre Squadron is affiliated to an ARRC Division, with whom they regularly train at home and abroad. However, in May 1997 the HAC deployed the first [TA] formed unit on Operations since the WWII when a patrol deployed on a six month tour of Bosnia.

Today the Regiment maintains close links with the City and draws the majority of its recruits from the area. It is always on the look-out for young, high calibre individuals capable of meeting the requirements of its challenging role.

As well as its operational role the Regiment is privileged to be the unit chosen to carry out State and Ceremonial functions within the City walls. This includes firing Royal Salutes at Her Majesty's Tower of London on the occasions of Royal Birthdays, State visits and the State Opening of Parliament. The HAC also provides the Guards of Honour in the Guildhall Yard for State visits when it exercises its right to march through the City.
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#15
Hodden Grey is a traditional tartan. Not usually as 'pink' as LS's Elcho Grey (to give it its correct titile). The LSRV adopted it as camoflage. Lord Elcho selected it:

"The principle that guided me was simply this. A soldier is a man-hunter, neither more or less, and as deer stalker-stalker uses the least visible of colours so ought the soldier to be clad....".

So I'm afraid it is about deer hunters - though I doubt if Lord Elch would have approved of poachers.

There were also considerations about choosing a Tartan that all members could wear with no clan rivalries but that was secondary.
 
#16
Very impressive, is the London Scottish tied to any clan as such?

In reply to Piper Will, wasn't the LIR part of the Royal Ulster Rifles before that? if so how come they never kept their rifle heritage.

Very interesting all this regimental history, especially as it's TA history!

I know that the Green Jacket companies have a TA history as well. F Coy which was made up of B coy 4 RGJ (Queens Westminsters Rifles and Civil Service Rifles), C coy 4 RGJ (London Rifle Brigade) and HQ coy 4RGJ (Queen Victorias Rifles) and G Coy which was A coy 4 RGJ (Stepney Rifles and The Rangers).

All the regiments that made up the London Regiment were in fact part of the greater London Regiment during the Great War.

Why has the London Regiment got no Battle honours on their Colours? seeing as they ALL fought with great honour during it!!!
 
#17
The LIR were part of the RUR, but they have also been part of the Rifle Brigade, North Irish Militia and the Royal Irish Rangers. They lost their 'rifles' affiliation in 1967 when the Bn was disbanded.

BTW, they were never 'trying to be greenjackets', they simply wore (and still do) rifle regt buttons/belts etc having been formed in 1859 as Rifle Volunteers.

The Jocks are not affiliated to a clan, hence they wear a hodden grey, not tartan.

The Londons don't have battle honours on the colours for a simple fact, no-one could agree on what ones to put on. Although I guess it would be pretty difficult to put on 31 Bn's worth of honours gained over 146 years on one colour!
 
#18
I don't really know the history of the London Reg, except the "Rifles", but Rifle Regiments don't carry colours so you would have to look those other companies to explain why no battle honours.

If you are correct it does seem odd though since I am sure the jocks and the paddies have done the biz on numerous occasions.

Maybe there are some Guardsmen who can tell us, but back in my old man's day the Guards were only kitted out with ceremonial kit as and when they did ceremonial duties, so there would be little expense in kitting out a TA Battalion. Good value if if frees up a Regular battalion for ops and training I'd say.

To be fair I wouldn't fancy it myself, and don't know whether the non Greenjacket elements of the London Reg would either. I wouldn't wish them a role they don't want.

50 points for anyone who knows the words to "I'm ninety five"
 
#19
Firstly, just to clarify, HAC are drop shorts plain and simple, and have nothing to do with Household Division.

As to the future of the Londons - I hope the Guards appreciate and fight for them. The RGJ companies may get hived off to reform 4RGJ, but I wonder if that will leave a big enough battalion behind to give the Guards the support they will need. Is a 4 coy battalion big enough to support 5 regular battalions?

This will be the first time the Guards have had a real TA affiliation (I don't count a couple of PSIs with the HAC) and they will need to wake up and fight for them.

As to uniforms and cap badges. Forget ceremonial, forget wearing an IG/SG/GG capbadge or star. The Londons have their own identity and should be proud of it. Why not just define a London Regiment capbadge and get the HD to agree to let them wear the BlueRedBlue TRF.

And advice to the Londons - get stuck in with the HD - make friends, get support and prove your worth to them. They will be surprised I think and you will benefit.
 
#20
Nothing HAC is 'plain and simple'.

As for London/Guards tie-up, many Regiments have existed under the London 'big regiment' and I wonder whether there'll be any point in trying to retain umpteen forner units or even associating companies with particular Footguards regiments.

I could see a Household Battalion of the London Regiment - such a thing existed within the BoG in wartime for the protection of the King.

However, those in positions to decide will no doubt come up with something very complicated. the time taken thus far suggests that it will be very very messy.
 

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