TA in the National Service era

#1
When National Service was in Operation what happened if you were serving in the TA?

Was it like the states US as a National Guardsmen you were exempt from the draft?

Does anyone know?
 
#2
Yes you went home on leave at weekends put on a different uniform and went back again. Ditto Sunday
 
#3
DarkNinja said:
Yes you went home on leave at weekends put on a different uniform and went back again. Ditto Sunday
Nice one! But would you have put on a different uniform if you were in the same Regt or Corps? Would your rank change, payscale......you can tell it is a quiet afternoon :)
 
#4
Farmboy
Ha Ha! Yes it is. I suppose it would've took the same form as FTRS/S Type and Mobilisation.
With the exception of Health and Safety reasons which didn't exist before 1974!
 
#5
DarkNinja said:
Farmboy
Ha Ha! Yes it is. I suppose it would've took the same form as FTRS/S Type and Mobilisation.
With the exception of Health and Safety reasons which didn't exist before 1974!
I just love the idea of a Sgt in the TA being called up for National Service, spending the week days as a recruit and then cutting about as a stripey on Sat and Sun (with a bit of after 20.00hrs on a Friday too) What fantastic windups you could have!!!

What a sad and slow afternoon it is!! It is even more sad that the above does in fact genuinely amuse me. Time to see the MO again.
 
#6
I doubt a TA Sgt would have ever been called up as National Service was done straight after leaving higher education (ie sixth form or university) as a side point though I did not know that after completion of national service you were required to be in the TA for four years. I just found this from a bit of googling;

http://www.telling-tales.fsnet.co.uk/natserve.htm#TA
 
#7
My father was in the ACC during his National Service and was posted to a TA artillery reg when he was demobbed. He never once turned up at a TA centre and no one came looking for him - he thought it was just an admin thingy so never bothered
 
#8
B_G_L said:
I doubt a TA Sgt would have ever been called up as National Service was done straight after leaving higher education (ie sixth form or university) as a side point though I did not know that after completion of national service you were required to be in the TA for four years. I just found this from a bit of googling;

http://www.telling-tales.fsnet.co.uk/natserve.htm#TA
Interesting link, the bloke sounds like a bit of a leftie moaner howoever it must have been a nightmare for TA units to accomodate non voluntary ex national servicemen into training schedules - must have created some morale dramas all 'round. You can imagine the TA seniors having some real issues managing the National Service chaps.
 
#9
B_G_L said:
I doubt a TA Sgt would have ever been called up as National Service was done straight after leaving higher education (ie sixth form or university) as a side point though I did not know that after completion of national service you were required to be in the TA for four years. I just found this from a bit of googling;

http://www.telling-tales.fsnet.co.uk/natserve.htm#TA
I have a suspicion that this is where the 'STAB'/walt image of the TA comes from, the link backs that up. Poor mans army, poorly equipped, waste of time etc.
The TA was designed to to be an alternative to national service, it shouldn't have existed when service was compulsory
 
#10
Missed a bit, the TA of the National Service era was still based on the pre WW2 structure, this was roughly 50% teeth arms(inc arty)/50% Anti Aircraft.

This split wasn't replicated in the regular army. Ack Ack was viewed as expensive to maintain full time. This means a large number of professionally trained full time soldiers would have to change cap badges (to Arty) on joining the TA.

Obviously the TA wouldn't be full of career soldiers/NCO's/officers and would have far greater proportion of (J?)NCO's who didn't want to be there.

I don't think the TA has ever been used to its best, always some fudge.

Boer War - pre TA volunteers, no complaints.

WW1 - Untrusted by high command, given difficult choices about volunteering for overseas service (which inc. Ireland, which wasn't appealing to a large part of the TA) . Although not read many problems about their performance, probably because they expanded sensibly

WW2 - Many units converted at the last minute (1936) to Ack Ack and couldn't recruit well. Then forced to create duplicate units which were obviously poorly manned, brought upto strength via conscription in mid 39. No wonder they performed poorly with the BEF, but why was undertrained 'labour' divs in the perimeter at Dunkirk.

The TA in the early forties was was screwed by both the regular army (just read some of the accounts of TA units) and the RAF (the 'TA' made a huge contribution to the Battle of Britain)
 
#12
B_G_L said:
I doubt a TA Sgt would have ever been called up as National Service was done straight after leaving higher education (ie sixth form or university) as a side point though I did not know that after completion of national service you were required to be in the TA for four years. I just found this from a bit of googling;

http://www.telling-tales.fsnet.co.uk/natserve.htm#TA

Not really, very few people in the National Service era went on to further education, they left school and started work for 3 years or so before being called up, although apprentices could have deferments and people in reserved industries, mining and farming, were exempt.
 
#13
I did NS in the 50s. You were called up at 18 but could be deferred if you were in education, apprenticeship etc. After 2 years full time 24/7/365 you went on TA or AER for 3.5 years. You had to do annual camp but could do normal TA if you liked. I was on AER and was not required to do annual camp but was later put on TA. I missed the camp 'cos I was doing exams at college. If you were TA before being called up you did NS full time. Contrary to popular myth NS were sent anywhere with regulars. Malaya, Korea, Aden, Cyprus (when it was nasty) etc
 
#14
Arpie said:
I did NS in the 50s. You were called up at 18 but could be deferred if you were in education, apprenticeship etc. After 2 years full time 24/7/365 you went on TA or AER for 3.5 years. You had to do annual camp but could do normal TA if you liked. I was on AER and was not required to do annual camp but was later put on TA. I missed the camp 'cos I was doing exams at college. If you were TA before being called up you did NS full time. Contrary to popular myth NS were sent anywhere with regulars. Malaya, Korea, Aden, Cyprus (when it was nasty) etc
Cheers Arpie I always wondered what happened to the TA during NS. I know that a great many NS lads saw active service, my uncle (sadly no longer with us) was with the Manchesters in Malaya and my Dad was with the Navy in Suez (one of a very few NS sailors in Fleet Air Arm) - I suspect that you have a tale or two to tell Arpie with your Korea avatar .
 
#15
My uncle was in the ACC for his NS, he got arrested after he was demobbed by two SIB coppers and was taken to the local army depot, they were going to charge him with going AWOL due his non TA attendance, but he went in front of the CO made his apologies and promised to carry out his TA commitment and was then realeased to walk all of the half a mile home, did he carry out his promise? did he b0ll0cks, he went back to find his mates and carry on playing pitch and toss!
 
#16
Polar - the TA got the same treatment in the late 20's and thirties that the Regulars got. The poor performance in the early period of the war by the whole army was due to being starved of funds for fifteen years. Don't forget that it was a TA Division that stopped the Germans for a time (50Div Frankforce) before going on to secure the Dunkirk perimeter until relieved by the Guards.
 
#17
Mushroom, I was refering to the 2nd line territorial units - many had been sent over untrained for labour duties but ended up holding the line (e.g. 46 North Midland)
 
#18
polar said:
Mushroom, I was refering to the 2nd line territorial units - many had been sent over untrained for labour duties but ended up holding the line (e.g. 46 North Midland)
Polar, forgive my ignorance but once hostilities began in 1939 I'm assuming that the TA ceased to exist as I imagine all their assets were rolled into the regular army?

Also (and I know we USED to be compared with Dad's Army) I always wondered why a "Home Guard" was created when surely all that had to be done was extend the age limit for a Home service type of TA?

You can tell I'm using up my leave at the moment and have nothing to do!!
 
#19
Yes the TA did cease to exist but most of the soldiers would have remained in their units and certainly people still referred to divisions as territorial post dunkirk (Field Marshal Alan Brooke mentions sacking of territorial CO's in his autobiography).

Potentially regular units got re-regularised first, after Dunkirk they would have had a large number of conscript? replacements and many officers would have been posted out to command other units or other jobs in the remainder of the army.
Not sure if this happened in Territorial units, e.g. 49 Div (1st line), suffered few casualties until 1944. So I'd presume it retained many pre war TA soldiers well into the latter stages of the conflict. Whereas its duplicate, had large number of conscripts/new volunteers in 39, again in 40, again 42->45.
 
#20
The regular army raped the TA during WW2 when they needed reinforcements due to casualties or capture. Instead of waiting for conscripted reinforcements to arrive they often chose to take the trained veterans of TA units already in theatre as they were of a very high quality. Some 1st battalions were simply transferred in bulk and the unit placed in suspended animation or the 2nd battalion would become a feeder battalion for the regular battalions
 

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