Ta fitness standards - pfa

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by casw4138, Nov 3, 2010.

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  1. There are 3 levels of MATTs 2 (1-3).

    How many PFAs do the TA have to complete each Trg Yr?

    It states 1 PFA in the MATTs 2 but the ISpec is different!!

  2. Well I suppose you could do two, I mean thats what only one every 6 months! I'ts only a few press ups and sit ups with a mile & half run. Then you can gauge your fitness over the year.

  3. Complete 2, Pass 0. Its a sham!!!
  4. msr

    msr LE

    Wrong. Complete 2 pass 2.

  5. Where did you get that info from? There is no requirement at present for TA to pass to qual for bounty - just complete!
  6. Isn't it the case that the PFT/PFA or whatever its called this week, cannot be used as a part of a package with a financial incentive due to it not being gender fair? I.E the CFT must be passed because it is both age and gender fair?
  7. Im sure this has been posted before, the TA fitness policy states:

    "MATT replaced ITD(A) on 1 Apr 06. A key change is that MATT standards must be passed. In MATT 2 (Fitness), there are 3 attainment levels for the TA:

    a. Level 1. This is the minimum standard for those warned for operational deployment and on High Readiness Reserve (HRR) engagements. Personnel are to attain this level before operational deployment, as do regular soldiers . There is no exemption for age. It is tested during Pre-Deployment Training (PDT), so individuals must attain it before they are deployed. Thus, it is also the FFM requirement . Fitness training beyond this minimum level should be expected and the more advanced Operational Fitness levels should be used as a measure of Operational Fitness. The MATT 2 tests are:
    (1) Annual Fitness Test (AFT). A timed, loaded march of 8 miles, completed in 2 hours and passed annually .
    (2) Personal Fitness Assessment (PFA). To be passed at the satisfactory (Green) level biannually. The PFA should be used as a progressive stage towards AFT. There are no age exemptions.
    b. Level 2. Deployable personnel not warned for deployment. The majority of the TA is at this level; the FFA standard. The annual test requirement is one 6-mile Loaded March (LM) and one PFA at a satisfactory (Green) level. The PFA should be used as a progressive stage towards AFT. Personnel over the age of 50 do not undertake the LM, they are therefore required to undertake 1 additional PFA in its place.
    c. Level 3. Level 3 is for personnel who are not in deployable posts . The test requirement is to pass the PFA biannually . There are no age exemptions"

    And with regards to bounty:

    "The rules governing the award of bounty are fully explained in the relevant documentation, however in order to re-enforce the physical aspects of the bounty earning criteria and to eradicate the possibility of confusion, the policy is as follows:
    ‘The award of Bounty still requires a pass in all MATT subjects. However, this HQ, in conjunction with ITG, has investigated the status of the Personal Fitness Assessment (PFA) in MATT 2. As it is a gender-fair test, we have determined that it should not be used to select individuals for reward or advancement . We have thus removed a PFA pass as a Bounty requirement. This will enable the TA to focus its fitness training on Job related and Operational Fitness, as exemplified by the Annual Fitness Test (AFT), rather than just Personal Fitness. Our revised Bounty directive also retains the right of one-star commanders to waive individual MATT requirements in relation to Bounty earning, at their discretion’. However it must be noted that the PFA has to be attempted by all eligible personnel, in order to qualify for the bounty criteria ."
  8. Did you get that info from the MATT pamphlet??? Just so I can wave it in the PSAO's face when he tells me I can't get mine???
  9. Its from the TA fitness policy issued by HQ Land in May 2009.
  10. msr

    msr LE

    Is there a copy on armynet?

  11. I have a copy in my office - will dig it out on Mon and let you have the Reference.

  12. I think people are confusing two very different issues here, that of requirements for payment of bounty, and the requirements for soldier fitness.

    It is possible to be awarded the bounty, and yet be below the required standard for fitness at MATT level 3. However, being awarded bounty does not prevent the CoC taking issue with an individual's performance through their SJAR or MPAR. At MATT level 2, failure to pass a PFA could also be used as reasonable grounds to prevent an individual completing a CFT (which is bounty requirement at level 2, as it is gender-free) due to medical concerns. More than one way to skin a cat!
  13. I don't think that would stand up in court/tribunal, using a gender fair test as an indicator as to whether someone can do a gender free test (on which a cash reward is given) is still discrimination.
  14. I don't have the MATT 2 notes in front of me, but I'm fairly sure there is something to the effect of the chain of command having a duty of care to ensure personnel are fit enough to attempt the CFT. Precisely because it is gender free, the PFA is designed to assess the underlying physical fitness of an individual, and a failure would represent a level of concern for that individuals age and sex.

    As for how this would stand up in court, I would defer this judgment to Dr_Evil....

    Oh, Doctooooorrrr Eeeeviiiiil!
  15. This stuff is giving me a headache. In real life, not just because of this thread.

    The key thing troubling me is how to enforce the standards, given the psychological effect of the lowered fitness level required in order to gain entitlement to bounty.

    BRL has helpfully quoted the relevant rules. As I understand them, they stipulate (for those at Level 2):

    1. The MATT standard is one annual PFA at green standard (pass) plus one completed 6-mile LM (or, if over 50, a second PFA pass).

    2. For bounty purposes only, the threshold is one annual PFA attempt plus one completed 6-mile LM (or, if over 50, a second PFA attempt).

    It's worth repeating: the guidance expressly states that the lower standard applies for bounty-earning purposes only. Logically, this must mean that for all other purposes, the normal standard applies. Clearly, then, although scraping an attempt at a PFA and passing the AFT(TA) is enough to earn bounty it is not enough to make a Level 2 TA soldier MATT compliant.

    Note that the guidance which sets out the reduced standard for bounty goes on to state that the TA must "focus its fitness training on Job related and Operational Fitness, as exemplified by the Annual Fitness Test (AFT), rather than just Personal Fitness" - but people mysteriously overlook that punchy ambition (and its implications) in their eagerness to claim their bounty.

    As it says in the MATT 2 Policy Statement, "Soldiers who are unfit reduce the fighting power of their units and detract from the overall performance and public image of the Army. ... The aim of MATT 2 is to set the basic level of physical fitness testing for all officers and soldiers in order to ensure that individuals are prepared for the physical and psychological demands of combat."

    It seems clear that the point of the reduced bounty standard was (perhaps optimistically) to shift the focus of TA fitness training away from bounty-earning and towards operational fitness. So a commander is perfectly entitled to continue to require soldiers to be operationally fit.

    In my view, this means the MATT 2 standard still applies. But what sanction can be applied to those TA soldiers who fail to meet it? They can't be denied bounty if they meet the lower standard but, equally, they can't be allowed to remain permanently unprepared for combat: it must be a breach of the commander's duty of care for that to be allowed to continue, year after year.

    Gassing_Badgers correctly points out that failure to meet the appropriate MATT standard can be mentioned in mid-year and annual reports. It could also be used as a reason for a lower grading or withholding recommendation for promotion. But I wonder what else is in the armoury: can a commander say: "Congrats, here's your bounty, and by the way, you are sacked by reason of your inability to meet the basic standard required to do your job.*"? And what about AGAI? Or flogging?

    As to stacker1's question: the MATTs policy stuff states that the PFA is the required build-up training for the CFT ("The PFA should be used as a progressive stage towards AFT."). The PFA is gender-fair (ie, it the standard is lower for women). It is entirely justifiable for commanders to refuse to permit a soldier to undertake the CFT if their PFA attempt indicates that they are so unfit that to allow them to take the CFT would endanger them.

    * Note: I am being facetious here: the process for dismissing on grounds of incompetence/incapability is a bit more involved.