TA Discipline

#2
Understand what you mean, we've just recently got rid of our mong.
JNCO's in particular struggled to work with the mong, I made constant complaints to ????- I was worried that our JNCO's were gonna take the mong around the back and give him a good kicking, so getting them into trouble. (The mong had been kicked out of regs, so had problems with him knowing the system better than many of us :!: ).

Maybe AGAI 67 will help us deal with these mongs, makes punishments a lot easier to do. Sigs Forum has discussed it.

http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=11116[/url]
 
#3
polar said:
Understand what you mean, we've just recently got rid of our mong.
JNCO's in particular struggled to work with the mong, I made constant complaints to my SSM - I was worried that our JNCO's were gonna take the mong around the back and give him a good kicking, so getting them into trouble. (The mong had been kicked out of regs, so had problems with him knowing the system better than many of us :!: ).

Maybe AGAI 67 will help us deal with these mongs, makes punishments a lot easier to do. Sigs Forum has discussed it.

http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=11116[/url]
Beat me to it, I was just looking it up :)
 
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error_unknown

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#4
Yeah seems fine in theory, but then the current system of charging if difficult to employ in the TA. Will this AGAI 67 be any different?
 
#5
I think the paper work is far less and its far easier for JNCO's/Sgts to issue punishments (just need to get CSM to ok it - minor administrative issues only).

Interestingly by default punishments/extra's can't be carried out over weekends
:!: :!: :!: (CO needs to ok it thro Part 1's)
 
#6
The main reasons that administrative action or charging doesn't happen in the TA is that:
a. The CSM hasn't got a backbone.
b. The unit has the discipline of a chav (Read 'Ned' for jockanese)
c. The most likely option is that the officers and seniors in your unit dont have the training and/or dont understand the principles and punishments involved.

Having said that, 17 years in and not a charge sheet to my name (recieved or issued!!!!). Because they know I will.

As for said mong, have your Pl Comd or CSM suggest to your OC (or if they are brave CO) that mong be ejected from the TA under section 10, (can also be used to reduce spacker NCO's to the ranks - no such luck with chinless wonder officer types thought, never mind!!!!!!!!!)
 
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error_unknown

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#7
jsp - I think options a and c apply. I'd love to suggest section 10 but with the numbers crisis in the TA I don't think that would be a winner.

Thanks for the advice, it seems that AGAI 67 might have the answer, I had it in black and white that AGAI 67 'applies at all times, to all members of the Regular and Territorial Army'.

Huzzah!!
 
#8
Glad to help. I understand the old war cry of the numbers game, but getting rid of mong will increase the morale and cohesion in your unit and possibly your credability. I had similar problems - mong got sacked and three lads walked through the door who were
Just waiting for that old arse to leave as were not being part of anything he is in
(I obviously paraphrase as the brain cells are not what they used to be!)

Good luck with the chain of command thing.
 
#9
JSPrest said:
I had similar problems - mong got sacked and three lads walked through the door who were
Just waiting for that old arse to leave as were not being part of anything he is in
Same happened at my unit, unfortunatley for me - one of those about to return is gonna want her old job back :cry:

Another reason why we don't charge or take administratice action is we don't normally need to and offences when they happen need major administrative action which is way above my authority.

Suppose we should get more training on the subject as we get mobilised far more often these days and were working with regs - who don't behave as much as TA do.
 
#10
JSPrest said:
Glad to help. I understand the old war cry of the numbers game, but getting rid of mong will increase the morale and cohesion in your unit and possibly your credability. I had similar problems - mong got sacked and three lads walked through the door who were
What? :eek:

msr
 
#11
JSPrest said:
The main reasons that administrative action or charging doesn't happen in the TA is that:
a. The CSM hasn't got a backbone.
b. The unit has the discipline of a chav (Read 'Ned' for jockanese)
c. The most likely option is that the officers and seniors in your unit dont have the training and/or dont understand the principles and punishments involved.
but far more likely is the fact that admin action rarely comes to fruition. I've never seen it. When said mong realises it's serious, a black bin bag full of kit appears outside the CQMS's door and said mong is always 'out' when you ring him. STABs don't stick around - because they don't have to.
I agree, a good admin kicking every now and then, pour encourager les autres, is good for morale - the good soldiers don't like seeing a mong getting away with it.
 
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error_unknown

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#12
but far more likely is the fact that admin action rarely comes to fruition. I've never seen it. When said mong realises it's serious, a black bin bag full of kit appears outside the CQMS's door and said mong is always 'out' when you ring him
That wouldn't be a bad result of the action. :twisted:
 
#13
Das Stab said:
he won't shut up saying he was never issued said piece of kit. I inform him simply that I'll bill him. All OK so far, he dives off and finds 'lost' piece of kit in his locker! He returns with superior look on face and proceeds to take the urine, drops the kit and strolls off whilst I am still berating him.
If he was not issued the kit charge him with stealing Army property. :twisted:

Map to Grid the waster.
 
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error_unknown

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#14
I see you're back with a vengance. I have checked the new AGAI 67 and find myself in an easy position to issue a minor admin action. The CSM signs it, job done and on his record. Start building the case to rid ourselves of mongs.
 
#16
Probably different now, but many moons ago some cnut gave a bloke a kicking after drinking the bar dry.

The victim wanted it to stay within the company so cnut was put on orders.

Cnut dissappeared until the charge was "out of date" (don't know the proper wording)

Cnut reappeared and went through Redress procedures when the CSM put him on every duty going.

Something go disasterously wrong there or what?



On another note anyione know a good legal way of teaching a Barrack room lawyer a lesson?
 
#17
Interesting to read this, during my time in the regs it became harder and harder to instill discipline in younger lads, old school methods just got you busted, but at least we could charge them or give them extras, they soon cottened on


But in the TA it must be a real pain, I mean in our lot sticking some lad on every weekend duty for a month could be done at a drop of a hat and they soon learnt a lesson, bt in your lot whats to stop him mouthing off and just going home :?
 
#18
Part_Timer said:
Probably different now, but many moons ago some cnut gave a bloke a kicking after drinking the bar dry.
Was at a unit where a PSI got a kicking from a drunken Cpl, the Cpl (as he was best of Buds with the OC) got off. Needless to say this Cpls behaviour didn't improve (made false allegations about other JNCO's/SNCO's, more fights and started phoning wives saying their husbands were having affairs), it continued until he was kicked out by a new OC.
 
#19
TA Discipline..... and the Joys of being a PSI....

In my 18 months with the TA, one thing is apparent. The TA seem to have an aversion to the word CHANGE. I have had one or two individuals at each rank from Sig to Lt that I would not employ to flip burgers, never mind take to war. They can be summarised in three main categories:

1. Boba Fett - The soldier who turns up for the money but has commitment issues - This individual knows how many days to attend, when the ITD weekends are, and manage to do a course in Lieu instead of Annual Camp due to "Work commitments". They work well when they are in, but just not in often enough.

2. Forrest Gump. The Individual is not suitable for employment in any trade, but has been "looked after" by seniors with perhaps an unhealthy interest in the soldiers retention. The soldier attends weekdays because it beats getting a real job.

3. The Egg Card- "What's in it for me". Can be seen at all the key events, especially to get "Face Time" but is rarely seen for maintenance, drill nights and such like.

The PSI's as I see it are "Caretakers", holding the fort until the big guns turn up to run their own show. However I am sure that Every PSI knows that not to be true. So Discipline increasingly falls to the PSI's in the absence of the Boba Fett SSM and the Egg card Troop commanders.

Again increasingly the Toms turn up , ill prepared and expecting everything to be done for them, and it doesnt help with some (not all i hasten to add) seniors are busy sorting their own admin out, instead of managing the troops.

When shortfalls in performance are identified, and flagged up to the OC Sqn, more often than not, a wait and see policy is adopted. I personally queried the performance of a Tp SSgt, and 14 months later am still waiting for the OC to take him in hand. Some Tp commanders are worse. I cave encouraged , cajoled, complained about, and even had to control directly a TP Comd, and yet he/she continues to get paid a vast amount of work for little effort.


My point is that you can tell The TA where they are going wrong, but they will only listen if it suits them. You can use the Chain of command, but if the (TA) Heirarchy is part of the problem you cannot win. We have to bend over backwards to keep these kids in, and find we have to fight tooth and nail to show the younger members that whatr they see from Sgt up is not how things should be, and encourage the JNCO's to command and get promoted so that they can change things. The PSI's can change nothing without the TA thinking it is their idea, and that it is a good idea...

And another thing, it would be nice for all PSI's to attend a course prior to posting so that they know what to expect.

oh and another thing, only post regulars to TA postings if they want to be there...

oh and another thing......


has anyone seen my chuff chart.



"This may be a hobby for you, mush, but it's my livelyhood"
Do I sound bitter?
 
#20
foreman said:
"This may be a hobby for you, mush, but it's my livelyhood"
Vice versa here. :D

However I do broadly agree with you.....BUT Is Bobba Fett ultimately for running a nice clean, efficient camp between national emergencies OR for deploying during national emergencies? (Lets pretend for a moment that no-one is playing in the sandpit and treat TELIC is an emergency as a seperate issue).

Courses for PSI's? Excellent.

I've also often wondered if a JPSI role might not be useful. A reg Corporal/Bombardier/whatever to assist the PSI and/or SPSI. Not mind to do stuff that the guys can and should do for themselves but to make the most of the limited training window. One decent lesson a week.
 

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