TA CR2 Cse

Discussion in 'RAC' started by Belushi, Aug 24, 2005.

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  1. Anyone got any int on what the score is with Yeomanry YOs doing a CR2 commander's cse? Last I heard, the powers that be were considering two two week modules, one on the technical aspects, the other on the tactics. All a bit vague and fluffy though. DRAC, if you're on here, feel free to contribute, Sir Please.
  2. ISTR You have to do a 2 year FTRS, and do the regular course and a years regimental service.
  3. Does Anyone know if this is still the case?

    Many thanks
  4. Frankly unless you are going to do an FTRS stint as a CR2 commander, there is absolutely no point in your doing any sort of CR2 commanders' course, as you are never likely to command one during operations or even for any sort of meaningful training. Just concentrate on providing IRs and the occasional composite Pl/Coy out of role. While this will apparently change in the near future, I suspect reality will kick in (at least as far as CR2 is concerned).
  5. Thank you brave-coward.

    I thought this would be the case and would like to go down the road of an FTRS stint. I am looking at where to join now and despite my best efforts and research i find it difficult to find answers to my questions or someone i could talk to about it. I would like to have a role where I am useful and doing the job intended.

    CR2 commander would be my preferred choice but I find it difficult to believe i would be able to do it with-out some pretty extensive training as you suggest. Is it common/possible for people to do FTRS as a commander would you know? Is it the sort of thing that would come up on the FTRS list or do you have to speak to a relevant person direct to show interest?

    Many thanks
  6. Your best bet would be to speak to your Trg Maj. I am making an assumption that you are a Lt or 2Lt from one of the 'Armd' Yeomanry regiments. I know a few TA officers who when in your position managed to get themselves into Tp Ldrs spots through FTRS in regular regiments. Whether they did the CR2 Tp Ldrs course (in effect the CR2 crew commanders' course plus a bit) was dictated by where the regiment to which they were attached was in the FORM cycle at the time, i.e. was there time/opportunity in the diary and also was there the requirement for that TA officer to command a CR2 during collective training.

    I don't know how much opportunity there is for FTRS Tp Ldrs nowadays. I would imagine that some regular regiments might have some gaps that they need filling, although these might be filled by drawing in regular officers from other regiments for short periods. Unfortunately, being a TA officer you will always have to accept that you will not be the first choice for many roles. This is nothing personal, it is just that from a commander's perspective why would they take a risk on someone who has only done the much abridged TA officer training and development when we recognise that 44 weeks at Sandhurst and 5ish months on the Tp Ldrs course is really what is needed.

    I would suggest you have a chat with your Trg Maj (or possibly Adjt). If you are able to put your civilian career on hold for a couple of years then ask them to make some enquiries on your behalf into potential FTRS opportunities as a Tp Ldr in a regular Armd Regt. Alternatively, if you can put your career on hold for a little longer, join the regular army on an SSC. This is obviously a four year minimum option (1 year at Sandhurst and three thereafter) rather than the two years for an FTRS.
  7. brave-coward - Thank you very much.

    I guess i just need to carry on and see what comes. Don't want to be too pushy with staff or be over keen/a pain in the arse. I understand what you mean about regular officers etc. Just need to be in the right place at the right time, liked by the right people i guess!

    Thanks again.
  8. Up to you how you want to proceed. Like I say, I assume you are a 2Lt/Lt in your early 20s, that being the case you are probably also trying to establish your civilian career. If you can (and want to) put your civilian career on hold for a couple of years to do FTRS, then I would recommend you push for it; nobody will ask you, you need to pursue it. Likewise, consider that if you are going to put your civilian career on hold for two years, why not put it on hold for four and go for an SSC, where you would certainly get to do the CR2 Tp Ldrs course and command an Armd Tp (assuming of course you get into an Armd RAC regiment).

    Right place at the right time and liked by the right people has little or nothing to do with how you are viewed by regular officers. You have not done the full training required to become a regular officer therefore your employment will always carry with it a greater risk than using a fully trained regular officer. Having said that, in the TA particularly there is a huge diversity in terms of the quality of officers, more so than in the regular army. If you are one of the best ones (in terms of intelligence, attitude and innate ability) then you stand a much better chance of getting employed in a punchy job when working within the regular army on FTRS. If on the other hand you are one of the weaker TA officers, stand by to be '3rd under-brew bitch' in a Company HQ CP somewhere when you are deployed, because no one is ever going to trust you to do anything meaningful. Of the three junior TA officers that I recall having worked most closely with (either on FTRS or mobilised for operations), one was a complete waste of oxygen and rations and fell so far below the standard required in every respect, frankly wearing the same uniform was embarassing, the second was reasonably good (considering he didn't have the benefit of 44 weeks at Sandhurst) and was given a Tp to command (although I cannot remember whether he ever did the CR2 commanders' course, far less commanded a tank in his time with us). The third was generally adequate as a junior officer but not fit for the role he in which he was employed and I had to sack him/mis-employ for this reason.

    Good luck in whatever you decide to do. But I would strongly recommend that you go ahead and push for whatever it is you want out of the Army, be it a purely TA experience, two years FTRS or a four year or longer period in the regular army. I would just caution you to understand the effect that spending two or four years away from your civilian career will cause (clearly this depends on what you do for a living).
  9. Thank you again. This is all very useful and information that i've found difficult to obtain.

    I'm little older and in my early 30's, looking at what unit to join now. I appreciate that my age will also work against me despite being fit and keen and prepared to make a big commitment.

    I am very conscious of not being the embarrassing officer you mention above and i want to be regarded as a good officer where-ever I may be. I don't however want to be stuck doing a backroom paperwork job as I am in a unit for which there is not really any other job do be done. I would sooner join another sqn that has opportunity to be trained up in a specific role. A role that i would enjoy and could embrace and work hard at to become the best I can.

    It is one thing if i didn't make the grade but another if there is never going to be the opportunity to even apply as it just wouldn't happen. I guess when i get to a unit they would be able to help me a lot more but i don't know who to approach at the moment. The questions seem a bit too specific for the careers office and i wouldn't expect them to know the finer detail of all the roles and opportunities available in every area. I do however seem to need to make a decision prior to signing up.

    I am fortunate in that I have a career that would enable me to do SSC or FTRS for 2/4 years and then go back. I would also be very happy to do this. I hope that this would stand me in good position as i could train to be a good, competent TA officer in the role and hopefully very useful for the unit. This, i understand, would be particularly relevant with the changes happening to the TA - I hope!

    Ive tried to find out about SSC. What is it and would i be too old? I assume so.

    Thank you very much again.
  10. As you are already in your 30s you are too old to go to Sandhurst for an SSC. Also, if you do an FTRS stint as a Tp Ldr you will find yourself as the oldest Tp Ldr in the regiment by about 5 years. I would strongly recommend you speak to your Trg Maj (or Commanding Officer if he is a regular officer) and consult his advice, as he should know you well enough to be able to provide meaningful advice and should also have a handle on the regular RAC regiments' requirement for FTRS officers.

    Can you confirm your current rank? I had assumed that you were a 2Lt/Lt, but being in your thirties you might be a Capt or a Maj and this will certainly change things.
  11. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator

    FTRS as the oldest subbie in town can be a very good thing though.

    I started what turned out to be a 4 year sting on FTRS as a newly minted 2Lt, just short of my 30th birthday. There was a clear 10 year gap between the youngest non-grad subbie and me. There was very little in the way of problems related to my TA background, and in fact the similarities in age and experiences (outside of the military) led to very easy relationships with my Pl Sgts and most other SNCOs. The only point I had to prove was that I was capable of doing what I had been entrusted to do - as long as I did that, I had no problems.

    Despite my wanting to "back door" into a regular commission (too old to go to RMAS), and CO (x 2) and Bde Comd supporting this aspiration, Glasgow killed it for career management reasons.

    The outcome was me being a subbie without career path to manage, so I got to have a lot of fun doing the stuff that others couldn't always spare the time for because they had to do things that were more important for their careers. 2 operational tours as a rifle Pl commander (including being put back into that position in preference to regular Pl Comds for the build up and entry into Iraq), a 5 month stint in the FI as a Pl Comd, Jungle courses in Brunei etc.

    Granted this was Pre-TELIC, and I had already established myself before we got too heavily caught up in enduring Ops, but there is no reason that this sort of attachment could not happen again.

    Did it set me back in my civvie career? Without a doubt. In fact, it has cost me an absolute fortune in lost salary and reduced pension contributions and future earnings.

    Would I do it again? Without a seconds hesitation.
    • Like Like x 2
  12. Can't believe you achieved any of that without the gold-standard 44 weeks at Sandhurst...

  13. This may get worse now but I am in the process of going to sign up (Hence not knowing or having people at hand to speak to) Could this mean I will be too old for any of this? It means that after what, a year or so to get training sorted, I will be mid 30's and only just able to do TACC.

    It is very encouraging listening to 'The Duke' also. Perhaps there is something suitable out there but its so difficult to know what. In a perfect world it would be a 'good' CR2 or other RAC commander in the TA with experience and full training. I don't know if this is feasible due to my age or there being the opportunities available.

    Thank you very much again guys!
  14. Duke, sounds like you had a great time and probably came in at the right time (a training cycle before TELIC 1). I certainly agree that it can be advantageous to be the oldest subbie and certainly so without the pressure of having to jump through the career progression hoops, but I suspect it can also be frustrating at times.

    To the OP, I did not realise that you are not already in the TA. My advice would be to join as soon as you can and get yourself through AOSB and one of the condensed TA officer training programmes (Summer Challenge I think it is called?) I would recommend being open from the start with your unit, let them know that you would be interested in doing a stint on FTRS early in your time in the TA. Also think about which part of the army you really want to join and which is likely to offer you the best chance of a fulfilling FTRS opportunity. This may not be the RAC and from The_Duke's comments above you may find that your chances of this sort of thing are better in the infantry. Bearing in mind that you are aiming to do an FTRS stint as an officer, may also wish to consider what sort of a regular army mess you would be most comfortable in, so that you can join the corresponding branch of the TA. The_Duke sounds like he can advise better than I on this.