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TA CFT

#21
Sorry Duke chopped the wrong bit off. In the past Ive seen several people quote "cant take part, medically downgraded" they werent so smiley at 1830hrs when they were still cleaning weapons while we were heading out on the pop!
 
#22
How lojng does a biff chit last for anyway ? Surely if someone is excempt from a CFT one year then they would fail the next pulheems and get the royal boot ?
 
#23
sick chits have a re-evaluant date on them plus depends on the injure. my uint was doing the 6 mile cft as part of ATD last year passed no problem with no real extra training.
 
#24
"When did you do that one then? Couldn't have had anything to do with me!"

the weekend before my CIC (a random weekend thrown in for fun!!), so early Feb last year. went round in circles lots - exact distance could be questioned but that's what someone got on a gps if i remember rightly?
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#25
pacestick said:
"When did you do that one then? Couldn't have had anything to do with me!"

the weekend before my CIC (a random weekend thrown in for fun!!), so early Feb last year. went round in circles lots - exact distance could be questioned but that's what someone got on a gps if i remember rightly?
Unlikely to be me then. The last time I threw my teddy out was when the PTI confused KM for miles and the tab was far to short, and badly run. I then got a bit upset and we might have done a few loops to make up for it. i doubt it was 9 miles though!
 
#26
The_Duke said:
CO's directive states that 4 Para will train to MATT level 1 standard. MATT 2 will be tested at 8 miles in 2 hours, but the Bn will train to 10 miles in 2 hours.
Can you confirm my assumption that that is with the same weight (25kg) as the TACFT (Inf).

Also I'm glad that some CO's still have realistic standards, but since the standards for Bounty/MATTs are set centrally surley bounty cannot be withheld for failing a 10 miler? Interested because I having a similar dicussion at the moment. It think that's what you may be saying but would be grateful for confirmation.
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#27
QRK2 said:
The_Duke said:
CO's directive states that 4 Para will train to MATT level 1 standard. MATT 2 will be tested at 8 miles in 2 hours, but the Bn will train to 10 miles in 2 hours.
Can you confirm my assumption that that is with the same weight (25kg) as the TACFT (Inf).

Also I'm glad that some CO's still have realistic standards, but since the standards for Bounty/MATTs are set centrally surley bounty cannot be withheld for failing a 10 miler? Interested because I having a similar dicussion at the moment. It think that's what you may be saying but would be grateful for confirmation.
QRK,

You are correct. The CO has deemed that 4 Para as the Para Regt reserve is required to train to MATT level 1. 25Kg, 8 miles, 2 hours. However, we routinely train to 10 miles in the same time to be more realistic.

The standards are known and clearly stated in the training programme given to all soldiers, and if anyone wishes to play the "but I am TA, I only have to do 4 miles" then the PSAO will happily draw up their transfer papers.

i am sure that there is something about CO's discretion on MATT standards, but the statement is quite clear. These are the start point for training, not the end point.

Duke
 
#28
The_Duke said:
CO's directive states that 4 Para will train to MATT level 1 standard. MATT 2 will be tested at 8 miles in 2 hours, but the Bn will train to 10 miles in 2 hours.
Whilst I know this is done with the best intentions, I fear it may not be legal.

Not that the guys from 4 Para should have any problem completing it...

msr
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#29
Msr- see my above. If anyone wants to argue that they only have to work to a lower standard, the the Women's Aux Balloon Corps awaits.

Legal or not, those are the standards required to be "efficient". Soldier's choice to stay and meet them or leave. It will not be the CO that hounds them out - it will be their peers.
 
#30
I am sure it will be, however, we need to drum it into those commanding TA units, that they cannot 'invent' regulations. Our TACOS are laid down in TA Regs.

msr
P.S. Did my CFT with 26 kg. Even the BSM (ex-4PARA) weighed my bergan and called me a f**king lunatic!
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#31
MATT level one is alsoapplicable for TA units warned for Ops. As the only reserve unit for the regular Para Regt Bns we deem ourself to be permanently warned for Ops in the same way that the LABTF is on constant standby. We are also currently warned for Ops again in 2008, he is well within his rights I believe.

Besides, you do not "drum" things into our CO, and if anyone wishes to argue the point they are more than welcome to.

You will hear the response from wherever you live in the UK!
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#33
Msr,

I am not aware of what sits behind that one, but the same training guide that lays out the standards above also states that the CO is determined that as many soldiers as possible will earn their bounty. Lots of chances to qualify, and a real drive to get people qualified.

No suggestion at all of trying to withhold bounty, just setting proper standards.

Duke
 
#34
We are not in disagreement ;)

msr
 
#36
The_Duke said:
psychobabble said:
It's 4 for bounty this training year ie til April, 6 if you're deploying and then next year as PTP says.
Not for us it is not!

CO's directive states that 4 Para will train to MATT level 1 standard. MATT 2 will be tested at 8 miles in 2 hours, but the Bn will train to 10 miles in 2 hours.

Only exceptions for Para Regt cap badge personnel are elderly (as defined in MATTs) or med downgraded who may be given an exception by the TM.

Other attached arms are at MATT 2 standard.

Max benefit, and the blokes love it!
Sorry, should have clarified that's for a deploying Field Hospital!
 
#37
Question I think MSR is edging towards, Duke, is if a 4 Para soldier passes all other MATTs and qualifies for bounty in all other ways; passes CFT as laid down in MATTs but not 8 or 10 miler as laid down by CO and is deemed by CO not to have qualified for bounty would he be successful if he made a complaint and asked for redress.

IMHO I think that, because there is a specific, TA wide, instruction as to the level required for bounty qualification HA would deem that the soldier had passed that standard and the CO, while he was entitled to set standards and conditions for measuring 'efficiency' of his soldiers he would not be right to deny bounty on these grounds.

We shall see, all academic once JPA comes in and none of us get bounty I suppose.
 
#38
Blyth_spirit said:
We shall see, all academic once JPA comes in and none of us get bounty I suppose.
Presumably because there will be noone left to collect it :(

msr
 
#39
The_Duke said:
MATT level one is alsoapplicable for TA units warned for Ops. As the only reserve unit for the regular Para Regt Bns we deem ourself to be permanently warned for Ops in the same way that the LABTF is on constant standby. We are also currently warned for Ops again in 2008, he is well within his rights I believe.

Besides, you do not "drum" things into our CO, and if anyone wishes to argue the point they are more than welcome to.

You will hear the response from wherever you live in the UK!
Duke, forgive me for echoing MSR but, at the end of the day, your soldiers training etc is governed by TA regs and sadly, not your CO's interpretation of them! If those guys are achieving the training standards set them, then they are achieving them, period!

It is 2007 and the world is governed by litigation. These soldiers joined your unit on the understanding that they had to meet certain standards (TA regs) and, as long as they meet them, they are keeping their side of the bargain. For you or anyone else to treat them less favourably because they are doing what they agreed to do is tantamount to bullying, take heed!
 
#40
Blyth_spirit said:
Question I think MSR is edging towards, Duke, is if a 4 Para soldier passes all other MATTs and qualifies for bounty in all other ways; passes CFT as laid down in MATTs but not 8 or 10 miler as laid down by CO and is deemed by CO not to have qualified for bounty would he be successful if he made a complaint and asked for redress.

IMHO I think that, because there is a specific, TA wide, instruction as to the level required for bounty qualification HA would deem that the soldier had passed that standard and the CO, while he was entitled to set standards and conditions for measuring 'efficiency' of his soldiers he would not be right to deny bounty on these grounds.

We shall see, all academic once JPA comes in and none of us get bounty I suppose.
BS, to achieve a CO's eff cert, all the soldier has to do is attend camp or course in lieu, pre-requisite no. of trg days (ind or spec unit) and complete MATTS to the standard reqd i.e. level 2 for TA (unless mobilised).

My unit have just gone through a phase where CO tried to impose his own 'standards', albeit with (in his mind) the right intentions but the bottom line is that the TA is governed by TA regs and not individual CO's. Jesus H Christ, we would be dancing to a different tune every time COs changed hands.
 
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