TA casualties are paying for their own operations

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Gracchus, Nov 7, 2005.

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  1. I don't think that anyone has already drawn attention to this story in today's Times:


    This appears to be shoddy treatment (no pun intended) by any standards. The officer who is quoted is actually a frioend of mine and he must have felt very strongly indeed on the issue to have spoken publicly.
  2. ViroBono

    ViroBono LE Moderator

    This doesn't surprise me at all. Too many people are falling through the gaps because there is no proper system for following them up once they leave RCDM (or wherever they are dumped when there are no beds). There is also the fallacy that once demobilised TA pers are no longer in the military health system; this is rubbish - they are entitled to treatment (for on-duty injuries) until they are discharged.

    A significant review of the system for keeping track of people like this (and SAH, and Y List and so on), was undertaken last year, not least because all the services has its own system - and they don't work very well. As far as I know the report went to MoD, since when.....

    Since we cannot realistically hope to get back military hospitals, there is a need for something to be done to ensure that TA who are handed over to their local NHS have military oversight and are properly treated. In my view the difficulties include the fact that NHS staff usually have no idea what the military can do to help (JSMRU Headley Court, or PCRUs, for example); the military don't make information easily available; MAO(CH)s are hideously overstretched; there is no mechanism for informing welfare agencies that may be able to help of the case; most TA units don't seem to be aware of entitlements; and many soldiers don't know who to contact when there's a problem.

    As a start, why isn't each wounded soldier provided with an information pack with contact numbers, a guide to entitlements and a guide for his GP and local hospital? Why isn't there a central number NHS staff can ring to find out about military facilities that could help? Why isn't there a specific cell to track wounded TA pers and ensure that they are getting everything they need?
  3. im shocked and quite disgusted, especially at this time of Remembrance, it will do absolutely nothing for recruitment, if i was a civvie considering joining up , i would be thinking twice.
  4. Doesn't the Armed Forces use the same medical IT system. The same system is far more advanced than the NHS in sharing (exporting) medical information.
  5. Gracchus,

    I am shocked but not really surprised as the whole military medical system was dismantled in the mid-late 90s in order to save money. The argument was that the NHS could treat everyone and we could shut down our expensive hospitals in Woolwich, Wroughton, Ely, etc.

    It's been my experience since, and the article confirms it, that the NHS can't cope. Headley Court remains but for how long? There must be a CBE at least for the 2* who shuts down that and saves the running costs. And Gordon would love us to sell that place!


    Cynical... but really it's Litotes
  6. Gordon cannot sell Headly Court it is not his to sell. The sad thing is I expect more and more civvies, footballers and the like to be using it as a Rehab unit to defray the costs. is this happening? It was the most amazing placew when I was there many years ago but there were already rumours of celebs trying to buy into unused capacity - and I had to wait 18 months to get in!
  7. ViroBono

    ViroBono LE Moderator

    I'm not certain, but I think there are single service versions of software in primary care, and as far as I know it is not generally used for TA in any case. A system for tracking those who have been spread far and wide need not be complicated - just a database with a diary system. However, what is most important is people, to keep in touch on a regular basis, with visits and phone calls. Lots of ex-service charities do it - why can't MoD organise something? It isn't difficult, and it needn't be expensive. I'm at a loss to understand why people are still being so badly let down.
  8. What happens when injured servicemen contact their platoon commanders? I know the system should look after them automatically but if they slip through the cracks or if the system ain't good enough then shouldn't their unit be making sure they are looked after.

  9. ViroBono

    ViroBono LE Moderator

    I apologise for monopolising this thread, but it is something that I feel strongly about; and I must declare an interest because I work in welfare and know that MoD is more interested in saving money than in people. They know the cost of everything, and the value of nothing; they do not see that failing to look after people in these circumstances affects retention. Unfortunately there are also some particularly ignorant uniformed individuals at main Building who go along with the bean-counters.

    As to the very valid point tricam raises, if the patient is a regular then yes, his unit should be doing what they can, and this does often happen. However, once a soldier has been off for a while he is Y Listed, and in theory Glasgow should look after him for admin purposes. It would be nice if his unit still looked after him for welfare, but I hear of cases where units seem to adopt an 'out of sight, out of mind' attitude. We must take into account distance and overstretch, and it's all the more reason why something better needs to be in place. For TA personnel, local units seem to do what they can. In both cases, it can be difficult for 'ordinary' military types to deal effectively with the NHS, not least because often neither side know what the patient is entitled to or what's available.
  10. Never mind coming back from Telic - this happens every single day. Quote "we aren't insured to treat TA"!!! This from AMS faced with a soldier (TA) with a broken leg.
  11. OldSnowy

    OldSnowy LE Moderator Book Reviewer

    Don't believe it! Staff there are already looking for jobs elsewhere. It WILL be sold/closed/disposed of, and certainly within the next 18 months. Even if the MoD don't own the freehold (which I think they do, in this case) they will still save a large amount on running costs, and gain by selling the MQs (unless of course Annington Homes get there first).
  12. Hell's teeth. I used Headley Court as an example only because it had survived the earlier cuts and I thought that such a jewel in the crown would be safe. But I guess not. That makes me sad. Luckily, I never had to use it but I was threatened with it.

    Someone else made an interesting point about soldiers on the Y List. I had a row with my last CO about the monitoring of those soldiers from the Bn who were on the Y List. He said I was wasting my time because they were no longer on the Bn's books and I maintained that the MAO(Ch)s were too stretched to do anything but focus solely on the medical issues. I concentrated on what I could do to keep them motivated and focussed on their return to service - especially the mothers. We agreed to differ.

  13. ViroBono

    ViroBono LE Moderator

    I fear, Litotes, that you are in the minority regarding looking after Y List soldiers. Strictly speaking, your CO is correct in that a soldier are Y Listed because he is non-effective and, as an admin procedure, it enables another soldier to replace him. In theory Glasgow take over his admin and are meant to look after him. In practice, from what I have heard from Y List soldiers, it means a letter or two and the odd phone call from a civil servant. Quite how this is intended to aid retention escapes me.

    It is odd that when cuts and amalgamations are announced much noise is made by senior officers about the importance of the Regimental Family, yet some of the same people are happy to adopt an 'out of sight, out of mind' attitude to Y List soldiers. Even odder is the amount of effort some units expend on trying to nail SAH soldiers whose main aim is to leave the army, whilst soldiers keen to return but Y Listed are ignored.

    MAO(CH)s are overstretched, but they are also sometimes reluctant to pass information to other agencies that could help; however, MoD have also been slow to recognise the situation.

    The work of all the various welfare agencies augments unit welfare support, it does not replace it.
  14. msr

    msr LE

    And we can all see what happens next...

  15. They are all on PHCIS.

    And yes no TA units has it, except for Chilwell, but I don't know how they were using the system.

    They weren't as far as I'm aware sending medical records (in electronic form) to the receiving unit and I suppose they weren't importing 'electronic' medical records even if they accompanied the medical record.

    I could be wrong but such a system could have created a vast database that would have proved useful