Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by oik_the_monkie, Dec 8, 2006.

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  1. I have no difficulty with my BCFT - and so have no axe to grind apart from one of fairness, how can a system that proffesses a one army concept but - if a member of the TA cannot pass their BCFT he or she loses her bounty - are you going to fine regular soldiers that ammonut £1,400+ if they fail and lets face it in some reg units it is as much as 20%+ running for over a year. Don't forget a lot of the TA can out perform these folk

    A lot of regular units have BCFT training every Fri morning with lunch and the afternoon off- will the TA start paying it's members a days pay every Friday to do a BCFT.

    Before any one feels that this an attack it is not. I am aware that a lot of reguars train in their onw time but so do a lot of the TA- they have to! and don't get a free day for the BCFT every Fri but this has to be generalisation and goes back to is this fair? How do we make this fair?
  2. If someone that is medically fit cannot pass a BCFT they are not fit to serve hence no bounty.

    How can you compare the two by means of having the friday afternoon off. Both the Regulars and TA have their own perks so its not about making anything fair. Regulars do it full time you do it part time why should you have a full day to do a morning work?

    Do you not have perks in you civvie job??
  3. You have been in the army too long -civies get very few perks and if it is os good in civi street why are you in the army - will you discharge the folk in your unit that fail or are you just hot air?
  4. Maybe you should find a new job, perhaps one with some perks (Fridays off for example).

    Where did you get your figures for regulars that fail their CFTs?
  5. Just a quick note about your argument, a lot of people in the ta have to take holidays to go on a 15 day camp or unpaid leave which may mean they are out of pocket doing a "basic" ta requirement that is what the bounty is for, its also a perk for all those family occasions that you miss , kids birthdays anniversaries when we are doing the "basic" ta requirement. I recently worked with some regs who moaned about having to work with us at the weekend saying how they don't get paid extra but the ta do, but it transpired that they were getting 2 days off in lieu for working one, sounds like a perk to me. Don't have a go at the ta when most of work 7 days a week including tuesday night and friday night, wouldnt catch regs doing that!
  6. I dont think you quite understand what I was saying. I said it was a basic test that should be passed easily. Attending camps has nothing to do with the argument. No-one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to do it, you do it out of choice!! If you cannot meet the minimum fitness requirements why should you get your bounty!!
  7. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator

    Christ, just stop whineing and making yourself look a prat. We took our weekend 5 TA recruits (yes, just 10 days training plus Tuesday nights) for an 8 miler (per MATT level 1) and they all passed comfortably.

    It is not hard, it does not require special treatment. Either go for a jog or accept that the TA is not for you and join an airsoft club.

    Rant ends.

    Edited to add:

    Regular soldier who fail their CFT do not get their bounty stopped. TA soldiers who fail their CFT do not get beasted by the PTI outside of their usual working hours, extra duties, Christmas rear party etc etc etc.

    Swings and roundabouts really!
  8. True, I remember an infantry unit I was attached to (as foo) that did CFT every Friday morning. Once it was over everyone who passed went home early. If you failed you got jailed (24hrs) by the CO & RSM standing at the finish line!
  9. that is the sort a reply i wanted - yes it is swings and roundabouts but we must be prepared to discuss this in open forum like this thanks so no one feels agreved - a lot of TA will not have any concept of 24 hours in a regemental jail - i can still remember it 25 years on !! thank you for a different perspective
  10. It is not hard, it does not require special treatment. Either go for a jog or accept that the TA is not for you and join an airsoft club

    Airsoft Club! hmm, do you get paid, fed and given free kit?.

    No!. What a shit hobby that is. Think I'll stick with the TA and keep blowing out my arse on the CFT.

    TA, Hobby, oh no what have I done!.
  11. The TA is self selecting and totally voluntary, rules is rules, if you don't like them you have the choice to leave at any time.
  12. everybody agrees that TA soldiers should be able to pass the CFT but linking it to bounty is a mistake

    bounty should be linked to MTDs only

    linking bounty to MATTs (inc CFT) is a terrible mistake as it encourages a box-ticking mentality rather than proper training.

    I have seen whole classrooms of people cheating on MATTs or everyone on the range fail their APTWs, and they are always signed off - because it's crucial to their bounty. How can you tell a highly-experienced WO1 that he won't get his £1.5k because he failed a CFT, even though he is vital to the smooth running of the unit? You can't - and no-one in their right mind would.

    We should unhitch MATTs from bounty - then we could actually fail people for a change, and acknowledge that there is a serious problem with their training - and stop this farcical situation.

    Bounties should be linked to MTDs - so let's raise the number of MTDs to encourage better attendance. Virtually everyone does more than 27 days anyway. This would get better attended evenings and weekends, where proper training could be done. 27 days is actually quite a low level of commitment. In theory a TA soldier should be attending about 60 days (12 x weekends of 2.5 days + 15 day camp + 36 weekday evenings (36 x 0.25=9). I wouldn't raise the bar as high as this, but 35 days would be realistic.

    If the TA is going to be an effective force, then people have to start failing tests - and linking bounty to MATTs prevents us from being honest about how low standards are.
  13. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator

    Only if people do not have the moral courage to fail the fat WO1. If I would fail a Pte who is too fat to walk, why should I not fail the WO1? He knows the standards required, and has been in the system long enough to understand the implications of failure.

    Linking bounty to MTDs only is the ultimate admission of the "attend and pass" mentality, and rewards those who draw money, without regard for their capabilities as a soldier, as measured by the very basic MATTs tests.

    If you want to guarantee a return to the TA being viewed as a bit of a joke, and in no way part of the "One Army" concept, then that is a surefire way of going about it.
  14. I totally agree with The Duke on this. It's also about personal pride. As said before if you (not aimed at anyone) fail a CFT or such like you should have a strong word with yourself and pass it next time or go join an airsoft club because you are not fit to serve let alone claim a bounty.