T.A. Pay as you dine

#1
Hi I am looking for some information

Donnington has now gone pay as you dine, before recruits were eating free. On the Army Jobs website it states that meals for the TA whilst on duty are free. This I believe is part of the terms and conditions of service. I have passed this up the chain of command and have been told that duty means guard duty etc, I do not think this is correct. I know this might seem like a trivial matter but as a new recruit I think it is a bit steep paying approximately 20% of net pay on food.

Can anyone help

Mat Regs do not include this as a duty?
 
#2
Don't quote me but I think recruits don't do PAYD. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will be along to verify or condemn.
 
#3
on a recruits course recently that i was part of we were classed as duty feeders and ate for free, although when completeing part 1a & b we had it deducted straight from our pay
 
#5
PAYD has introduced a change in "in practice" if not official Ts&Cs for the TA. Historically, we didn't pay for food and accom charges, except in certain cases (long courses, IIRC). Officers did used to get pinged for mess subs and EMC, of course but hey ...

Now, except in certain cases (RTMC), you will PAYD for food although accom is still normally not charged.

Look at it this way - the same applies to your Regular counterpart. PAYD has actually closed a "too much admin to recover such a small amount" loophole.
 
#6
Idrach said:
PAYD has introduced a change in "in practice" if not official Ts&Cs for the TA. Historically, we didn't pay for food and accom charges............ PAYD has actually closed a "too much admin to recover such a small amount" loophole.
Is the admin cost worth the candle ? All thats happening is that the admin burden is increased, more reporting, more returns. Improvement in overall "military" output - NIL. Simpler answer is to feed the soldiers, full stop. We do it that way on Ops and Exercise, whats the point in doing the extra admin in barracks ?
 
#7
I could ask the question for you on tuesday night when i go in to my unit (i'm in recruiting) but i've never heard of recruits having to PAYD


Try posting this in the TA forum i'm sure someone there will be able to help you out more
 
#8
Haribo said:
I could ask the question for you on tuesday night when i go in to my unit (i'm in recruiting) but i've never heard of recruits having to PAYD


Try posting this in the TA forum i'm sure someone there will be able to help you out more
PAYD is certainly the rule at RAF Halton, at least for Oggies.

The cashiers are very strict when it comes to measuring breakfast portions as well. One bean over the assessed quantity and they charge you extra for it.
 
#9
Trossachs said:
Is the admin cost worth the candle ? All thats happening is that the admin burden is increased, more reporting, more returns. Improvement in overall "military" output - NIL. Simpler answer is to feed the soldiers, full stop. We do it that way on Ops and Exercise, whats the point in doing the extra admin in barracks ?
The admin exists for PAYD which exists for the whole establishment. Please don't argue with me about the introduction of PAYD - I believe it was a horrible mistake but not being charged for meals they didn't take was something a vocal minority of servicemen were demanding. PAYD was the b@stard child of that shrill demand and contractorisation. This - TA paying for meals - is just a side effect.

Edited because "fatherless" doesn't replace "b@stard" effectively in the paragraph above.
 
#10
Recruits don't PAYD in the regs (until at their unit ofc), but i recon its daft that they are making the STABS do it.
 
#11
David2008 said:
Recruits don't PAYD in the regs (until at their unit ofc), but i recon its daft that they are making the STABS do it.
I'm fairly certain you don't as a TA recruit at a recruit training establishment or at places used to dealing with TA recruits. Whether you do or not at other places depends on what the contract says - you shouldn't but if you do, I suspect you can JPA16 claim costs back (although I've rarely got a receipt from a PAYD site for core meal.)
 
#12
Idrach said:
David2008 said:
Recruits don't PAYD in the regs (until at their unit ofc), but i recon its daft that they are making the STABS do it.
I'm fairly certain you don't as a TA recruit at a recruit training establishment or at places used to dealing with TA recruits. Whether you do or not at other places depends on what the contract says - you shouldn't but if you do, I suspect you can JPA16 claim costs back (although I've rarely got a receipt from a PAYD site for core meal.)
Well if its basic training your talking about the food should have been covered in the £10,000 that they spend on getting a recruit through the gates.

If its other phases of training I suppose it would be fair enough to implicate PAYD saying as you have more time to yourself, and free to wander off camp in your spare time.
 
#13
David2008 said:
Well if its basic training your talking about the food should have been covered in the £10,000 that they spend on getting a recruit through the gates.
:? I think you are running a false equivalence between the way the regular Part 1 training is run and the way it happens in the TA.

If its other phases of training I suppose it would be fair enough to implicate PAYD saying as you have more time to yourself, and free to wander off camp in your spare time.
Again - you are erroneously conflating regular training and TA training. I doubt there is anything like as much spare time in TA training courses - remember that, pretty much by definition, we are already working the weekends as well as failing to cram something vaguely like the bullet points of a regular course into a maximum of 15 or so days.

Edited to add - and you're not even in the Army yet? Have you any TA experience or training?
 
#14
As a recruit (soldier under training) you are entitled to the core meal only !

Any additional items of food have to be paid for out of your pocket!
 
#15
Idrach said:
David2008 said:
Well if its basic training your talking about the food should have been covered in the £10,000 that they spend on getting a recruit through the gates.
:? I think you are running a false equivalence between the way the regular Part 1 training is run and the way it happens in the TA.

If its other phases of training I suppose it would be fair enough to implicate PAYD saying as you have more time to yourself, and free to wander off camp in your spare time.
Again - you are erroneously conflating regular training and TA training. I doubt there is anything like as much spare time in TA training courses - remember that, pretty much by definition, we are already working the weekends as well as failing to cram something vaguely like the bullet points of a regular course into a maximum of 15 or so days.

Edited to add - and you're not even in the Army yet? Have you any TA experience or training?
Clear this up, I was in the army before so don't you worry about that.

Secondly I was under the impression the STABS done the full courses that we do only not working fulltime, my mate done the full phase 1 at catterick and hes in the TA infantry :?
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#16
Week 10 of junior entry before you jacked - move over CGS, David's on his way!

No, the TA do abbreviated versions of the regular courses to allow for the training time available. Missing key training objectives are supposed to be covered by continuation training at unit.
 
#17
The_Duke said:
Week 10 of junior entry before you jacked - move over CGS, David's on his way!

No, the TA do abbreviated versions of the regular courses to allow for the training time available. Missing key training objectives are supposed to be covered by continuation training at unit.
Phhwooa someones been doing his research :eek:
 
#18
max556mm said:
Hi I am looking for some information

Donnington has now gone pay as you dine, before recruits were eating free. On the Army Jobs website it states that meals for the TA whilst on duty are free. This I believe is part of the terms and conditions of service. I have passed this up the chain of command and have been told that duty means guard duty etc, I do not think this is correct. I know this might seem like a trivial matter but as a new recruit I think it is a bit steep paying approximately 20% of net pay on food.
Can anyone help

Mat Regs do not include this as a duty?
Leave, then pay for the food anyway. But without the benefit of the extra money from the TA....

I am assuming you would eat at least twice a day anyway.

Everyone pays for food, and training isn´t "a duty". You may be "on duty" for training, but you are likely not to be on "a duty".
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#19
David2008 said:
The_Duke said:
Week 10 of junior entry before you jacked - move over CGS, David's on his way!

No, the TA do abbreviated versions of the regular courses to allow for the training time available. Missing key training objectives are supposed to be covered by continuation training at unit.
Phhwooa someones been doing his research :eek:
Not hard, and a good way of taking apart little white lies like "I've been in the army before".

Technically, yes - but very economical with the truth.
 
#20
David2008 said:
Clear this up, I was in the army before so don't you worry about that.
:twisted: Your time in makes my 22+ of regular and TA service clearly invalid. Less cynically, I do hope you manage to keep to it this time and make it on to the trained strength.

Secondly I was under the impression the STABS done the full courses that we do only not working fulltime, my mate done the full phase 1 at catterick and hes in the TA infantry
I was not under the impression that it was usual for a TA recruit to do the full Regular course. Edited to add - this is sarcasm - I may need to point it out to David. A translation is "I've never heard of that before and I bl00dy well should have if it is common, never mind usual." See the wiki. I'm not saying that it is not possible but consider the costs and compare it with the return of service commitment (none) and the recruit turnover for the TA.
 

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